Trickle down economics ?

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by Voxman, Jul 24, 2010.

  1. Voxman

    Voxman Moderator Staff Member

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    So how did anti-American trickle down economics work for you since 1980??? Send more jobs overseas and encourage illegals to "do the jobs Americans won't do", those bad unions, tax breaks favoring the top 0.0999%? Did we the peple mess up in 1980 or what???
    Our govt is like the WWE(wrestling). They all act like they hate each other in public, but when in private they hang out together and laugh at the American people and especially spend all of our money. Prime example, if there is some catastrophe Bush and Clinton get together and are best friends. If we keep defending these establishment candidates we can only blame ourselves for our terrible situation.
     
  2. iblive

    iblive Well-Known Member

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    I'm of the mind set that at the county, state and federal level, if you're an incumbent running for office I'm voting for the other guy. Republican, Democrat, Independent, Socialist, etc.... doesn't matter. These people have been elected by the people for the people and somewhere along the way they have all forgotten that. I am so sick of partisan politics that IMO both the Republican and Democrat parties should be disbanded and started over as something else. At this point in history, neither party comes close to representing what they each stood for. And yes, I did mean that in past tense! Neither cares two hoots about us, they only care about how they look on the evening news or if their sound bite was PC enough so as not to p*** anyone off.

    Ouch!!! ..... sorry.... just fell off the soap box. :roll:
     
  3. John J

    John J Active Member

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    ^^^ I know you two geezers are old enough to remember this. Remember when Ronald Ray Gun (Zap) gave his big speech on TV about his trickle down economics plan? I remember one of the news casters had a bunch of champagne glasses stacked up and poured champagne in the top one. As the glasses filled up it trickled down to the next level. I knew right away we were in trouble. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the wealthy could afford to buy bigger glasses.
     
  4. dbb

    dbb Well-Known Member

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    I always thought of it as "piss down" economics because the very rich got richer while pissing on the middle class.

    Electing Ronald Reagan was the beginning of the end; Clinton helped with Nafta and GATT, and the Bush 2 finished the job, with "vote for change" Obama keeping on with almost all Bush policies.

    Yup, the incumbents LOOK like enemies but they are like pro football teams - well paid members of the SAME LEAGUE.
     
  5. iblive

    iblive Well-Known Member

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    [quote author=John J link=topic=20829.msg250635#msg250635 date=1279984856]
    I know you two geezers are old enough to remember this. Remember when Ronald Ray Gun (Zap) gave his big speech on TV about his trickle down economics plan?
    [/quote]

    Gee thanks for the "old geezer" jab. Now I feel really old. But yeah, since the first time I voted was Nixon's second term, I'm not having any problems remembering Reaganomics.

    [quote author=dbb link=topic=20829.msg250637#msg250637 date=1279988076]
    Electing Ronald Reagan was the beginning of the end; Clinton helped with Nafta and GATT, and the Bush 2 finished the job, with "vote for change" Obama keeping on with almost all Bush policies.
    [/quote]

    (1) Personally, I was in a better position after the Reagan years than I was before, so for me trickle down worked out.

    (2) I'm glad you traced the presidential lineage clear back to Reagan, because this country is so big and reacts so slowly to change that whatever is happening economically today is due to policies put in place at least one administration ago and sometimes more than one administration ago. Each current President gets the credit or blame for the current situation (be it good or bad), when in reality he inherited it. Obama inherited a mess. However, Bush 2 can't take credit for all of it. We may have looked good on paper when Clinton handed over the office, but one president can't screw things up that bad all by himself.

    Next................
     
  6. Pearly Gator

    Pearly Gator Member

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    Some of my favorite quotes are from President Reagan.

    "Governments have a tendency not to solve problems, only to rearrange them."

    "I used to say that politics was the second-oldest profession. I have come to know that it bears a gross similarity to the first."

    "Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem."
    RONALD REAGAN, First Inaugural Address, January 20, 1981

    "Man is not free unless government is limited.... As government expands, liberty contracts."

    "No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!"

    "Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."

    "Our natural, inalienable rights are now considered to be a dispensation from government, and freedom has never been so fragile, so close to slipping from our grasp as it is at this moment."

    "The federal government has taken too much tax money from the people, too much authority from the states, and too much liberty with the Constitution."

    "Extreme taxation, excessive controls, oppressive government competition with business, frustrated minorities and forgotten Americans are not the products of free enterprise. They are the residue of centralized bureaucracy, of government by a self-anointed elite."

    "Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."

    "In an atmosphere of liberty, artists and patrons are free to think the unthinkable and create the audacious; they are free to make both horrendous mistakes and glorious celebrations."
     
  7. dbb

    dbb Well-Known Member

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    I have no real problem with Reagan himself, per se, just what his election symbolized (like removing the solar panels from the White House).

    A lot of those quotes are interesting and funny, unfortunately "The federal government has taken too much tax money from the people, too much authority from the states, and too much liberty with the Constitution." is the theme for the moment.

    Actually the President is blamed or rewarded for a lot of things he has little control over, so it's best to try to have a "big picture" overview. (I never liked Bush 2, but that was because I thought him unqualified and that the (s)election of 2000 was a farce with the Supreme Court delivering the Presidency along a party line vote...and that rotten PNAC neo-con agenda.)

    Unfortunately what happened was deregulation, which SEEMED good as it got rid of those pesky rules, but it allowed the foxes to run the henhouse, and the result was financial derivatives, banks too big to fail, etc.

    Despite the ever-deepening divide between the two parties, the course of our modern history has varied little no matter which side is in power. More money for the Pentagon, more Federal gov. in general, less care for average people and more for corporate interests.

    [quote author=iblive link=topic=20829.msg250633#msg250633 date=1279982515]
    I am so sick of partisan politics that IMO both the Republican and Democrat parties should be disbanded and started over as something else. At this point in history, neither party comes close to representing what they each stood for. And yes, I did mean that in past tense! Neither cares two hoots about us, they only care about how they look on the evening news or if their sound bite was PC enough so as not to p*** anyone off.
    [/quote]

    I totally agree. We need new parties, or NO parties. Proportional representation rather than a winner-take -all system would help too.

    I joke that we have a party that is bought and paid for by the big money guys, cares little for the populace, and is mostly interested in getting re-elected and rich. And the Republicans are even worse.
     
  8. John J

    John J Active Member

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    [quote author=dbb link=topic=20829.msg250637#msg250637 date=1279988076]


    Yup, the incumbents LOOK like enemies but they are like pro football teams - well paid members of the SAME LEAGUE.
    [/quote] Very true. The IVY LEAGUE.
     
  9. guitarweasel

    guitarweasel Well-Known Member

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    Or the Bush League ....pun intended. :)
     
  10. sgtbeefheart

    sgtbeefheart Well-Known Member

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    [quote author=dbb link=topic=20829.msg250637#msg250637 date=1279988076]
    I always thought of it as "piss down" economics because the very rich got richer while pissing on the middle class.
    [/quote]

    Coincidentally, when I saw the title of this thread, I thought "diarrhoeha", that's what trickled down.

    Unfortunately Reagan and Thatcher were beguiled by Milton Friedman, and set about freeing Capitalism
    from social, moral and ethical responsibility.

    This resulted in some people getting very rich indeed, and they've been gorging themselves ever since.

    Of course if you combine "gorging" and "rich", you get the aforementioned diarrhoeha.

    Guess who's got to clean up the mess.
     
  11. Kevy Nova

    Kevy Nova Well-Known Member

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  12. oldrockfan

    oldrockfan Well-Known Member

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    "Man is not free unless government is limited.... As government expands, liberty contracts." This pretty much says it all... big government is bad and ours has steadily grown to the point that it has fingers in pretty much every aspect of our lives.

    I am no longer concerned in party politics at all, both republican and democrat are equally to blame in this mess. What we need now is less government at all levels. One way to improve the economy is to quit spending so much money on all these politicians who all try to expand their respective programs so they have more authority and thus more power and influence.

    I'd go a step further and say to help stimulate our job situation, take all the money we are currently paying to foreign countries and spend it in the US to retool companies who sign a legally binding agreement to produce goods right here in the USA. That would get folks back to work and that is what we desparately need right now is more jobs... not more government!
     
  13. Pearly Gator

    Pearly Gator Member

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    Presidents get a lot of blame for the economy. In reality, congress controls the nation's purse strings. Just like our current economy, I do not blame Obama. He can only sigh laws passed by congress. We all know that the current congress has an 11% approval rating. The lowest in history. This is the same congress that was in power the last two years of Bush 2.

    We, our children and our grand children got a 780 billion dollar emergency spending package dumped on us that did NOTHING to help the country. It's not the government's money. It's OUR money. I think all who voted for that spending bill should be voted out of office in November.

    Check out the National Debt Clock: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

    [​IMG]
     
  14. dbb

    dbb Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Pearly Gator and oldrockfan...less government (and police) and more real jobs.

    Vote them ALL out - and don't elect lawyers.
     
  15. John J

    John J Active Member

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    [quote author=Kevy Nova link=topic=20829.msg250650#msg250650 date=1280021996]
    Here are some depressing stats:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticke...7.html?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA


    [/quote]That 86 cent an hour garment worker in China better watch out. The 22 cent an hour worker in Cambodia is soon to have his job.
    Sad but that the way greed works. That way those at the top can justify a bigger bonus than last year. Ivy League all the way.
     
  16. Voxman

    Voxman Moderator Staff Member

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    Simple research. Take a look at the state of the economy before Gramm-Leach-Bliley and The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000. Then see what occured when the following trade agreements were fully implemented:
    NAFTA
    ASEAN Initiative:
    APEC or Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation :cry: :-\
     
  17. John J

    John J Active Member

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    [quote author=Voxman link=topic=20829.msg250789#msg250789 date=1280457290]

    APEC or Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation :cry: :-\
    [/quote] Something must be wrong because I don't see much co-operating going on.
     
  18. Voxman

    Voxman Moderator Staff Member

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    Today's economic crisis lies directly at the feet of Wall Street and the unregulated, and in fact encourage greed shown by the banks that control the countries wealth. The current collapse mirrors the collapse of the great depression of the Early 20th century. Prior to that collapse it was legal to basically wager on the performance of the stock market without ever purchasing any stock. These "gambling" houses existed right on Wall street and the surrounding houses and became so powerful that in a role reversal market performance was dictated by the daily wagers put on its performance forcing a collapse. Today's market collapse was forced by financial instruments that basically allowed wagering on the mortgage market without ever issuing a single loan. When those who "owned" these financial instruments went to collect, the money was not there and the market collapsed. A select few collected and got very very rich. So to sum up todays economic situation was the result of a select few people who devised an unchecked system to access the countries wealth and so they did. They got very very rich while the country is now paying. The fact that basically the same economic failure has happened in a span of less than one hundred years reveals a fundamental and possibly fatal flaw in our economic system.
     
  19. dbb

    dbb Well-Known Member

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    [quote author=Voxman link=topic=20829.msg251166#msg251166 date=1281708977]
    The fact that basically the same economic failure has happened in a span of less than one hundred years reveals a fundamental and possibly fatal flaw in our economic system.
    [/quote]

    So capitalism ain't the perfect solution.....
     
  20. sgtbeefheart

    sgtbeefheart Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, we may never know if Communism can succeed.

    The only country that has adopted it, rather than just using the word to fool the people
    that it isn't Capitalism, hasn't been allowed to do business with anyone else.

    There are very few words that cause such an irrational level of fear and hysteria.
     

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