Trouble balancing the Epiphone Vintage G-400 SG

Discussion in 'Epiphone SG' started by Miguel, May 30, 2020.

  1. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't have said it better myself....oh wait, I did.:naughty:
     
  2. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    Right. I've actually got an SG modified that way - that's why it's not a 'theory' of any sort, but knowledge...

    You, on the other hand, have to use your imagination to figure it out - I guess that's the limitation that's causing you to get it wrong.

    And if you're still thinking neck dive is psychogenic - go see James Randi, he'll give you a million dollars if you can prove that in his lab.

    Please do go ahead and put me on your ignore list - if it'll stop you responding to my posts with your usual BS.
     
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  3. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    Or I can just tell it like it is and let the truth (and physics) prove me right.
     
  4. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    Again, it's my SG that's modified, not yours. I can put it on a strap, feel how well balanced and safe it is. Whereas you, as so often, are have no idea what you're talking about, you're making wrong assumptions and talking nonsense as a result. Fortunately, you don't always do that, but when you do it's really, really tiresome.

    These days I spend my working hours helping people in psychological distress, much of it caused by trauma and often compounded by addictions. But to be frank, I've no wish to have to deal with your 'issues' when I come here: The guitar is one of the ways I deal with all the material I've come up against in my professional life. Years ago your relentless tiresome bullying drove me away from this site for a year or so, I simply didn't want to have to deal with your nonsense. I still don't, but I'm not going to let you do that again. I like the rest of this site. In truth I don't dislike you, or hold a grudge, much of the time you sound like a decent person outside of this space. Right now, I don't care if you chose to ignore my posts, but if you're going to respond to my posts with lies, misinformation and BS, I will respond to you with honesty and clarity:

    The SG in the photo had severe neck dive. Let go of the neck and the headstock would be pointing at the ground in a second. That made the rear strap vulnerable to being pulled off in such a situation, and did nothing to contribute to playing comfort. Initially, I fitted strap locks, chose a wide 'grippy' strap, and held the neck up as I played. Ultimately, I chose to effect a permanent solution to the problem by moving the rear strap button. It's my SG, I can do that. This has resolved all neck dive tendencies, the guitar is perfectly balanced when standing, and a joy to play. There is no longer any need for a strap lock or a grippy strap, but I've retained both, using the locking button in the new location, and the original non-locking button in the Bigsby installation. At some point I'll revert to regular buttons as I don't really like the rattling of the Schaller locks - but it not a priority, a few of my other guitars still have them.

    The above is a factual statement based on personal experience. Believe whatever nonsense you wish - but your belief won't make it true, no matter how tightly you cling to it.
     
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  5. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    Why the hell would you do that? Seriously I don't care, so wear your SG how you like. I'll post for the educable. Buh bye!
     
  6. geetaruke

    geetaruke New Member

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  7. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    Can't resist huh? Well use your imagination - if it's a struggle for you, let me get you started: Maybe you suddenly needed to use both hands for a reason... now see if you can take it from there. And if you can possibly imagine something like that, then wouldn't it be a shame if your SG got a broken neck because you hadn't got the strap reliably attached?
     
  8. papagayo

    papagayo Well-Known Member

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    You need to inject helium into the tuners or buy a Gibson.
     
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  9. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I find mylespaul a complete toilet so at least it's not as bad as that. Sadly I see this a lot here though. First time poster - argument - first timer leaves never to return. Pity. Especially since one infamous sh!tposter was banned under another signature and is now back with a new one only to continue the bs, albeit a little less I have to admit. Neck dive and other classic fight issues should have their own categories I feel, so we can be rid of at least those.
     
  10. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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  11. Grizzlyman

    Grizzlyman Active Member

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    I definitely can say that moving the upper strap button to the top of the horn works well for helping eliminate neck dive IN MY EXPERIENCE.
    I have 2 Iommi Epi SGs and they both have the strap button on the horn and dive way less than my G310 or G400 or Vintage VS6. So much so that I moved the button on those other guitars too.
    Also a wide raw leather strap works well as the unfinished leather on the bottom grips your clothes IN MY EXPERIENCE.
    An SG is never going to balance as well as a Pacifica or Strat (I know from experience as I have those too), unless you do something drastic, so there is a little bit of adjustment to get used to, but after a week playing you’ll just get used to it.
    I have a Gibson SG Special and Gibson SG junior and their strap buttons are on the rear of the neck join, and whilst the are more neck heavy than my Epiphones and Vintage, I don’t really ever notice it when playing.
    So to summarise: you can mitigate the problem somewhat by moving the strap button and getting the right kind of strap. You will also have to get used to the fact it’s never gonna feel like your pacifica (also an excellent guitar).
    Also I’ve never had any problem moving the strap button to the top horn, but for gods sake drill a pilot hole first!!!
     
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  12. Grizzlyman

    Grizzlyman Active Member

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    Never had a problem with SG balance sitting down though, can’t imagine what’s up there...?
     
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  13. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

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    Strap et ceinture.jpg
    Strap et ganse.jpg
     
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  14. Snapjaw

    Snapjaw New Member

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    Put a bigsby on it. Screw a lead weight to the bottom? Any guitar under $500 is made for modifications. Just make it yours and keep it forever. It will become priceless in your mind when it feels and plays exactly how you want it to and the name on the headstock won’t mean a damn thing. I have a 70’s greco sg that plays and sounds better than any Gibson I’ve ever touched. Bought it for $500 and turned it into a piece of me. My 2¢.
    Cheers!
     
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  15. Snapjaw

    Snapjaw New Member

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  16. DaveSG

    DaveSG Member

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    First of all, welcome, and great choice on the guitar!

    Ditch the heavy Grovers that are on there.

    Lightest available tuners are the Gotoh Stealth - 2.5oz. That would help a great deal.

    I have this issue on my fav Epi SG and I am counteracting it in several extreme steps. I reprofiled the headstock to take more weight off of it. I moved the strap button to the heel of the neck, since the '61 style heel design puts the strap button farther back, and I'm going with the superlight tuners. Neck dive will be a thing of the past.
     
  17. zone47

    zone47 Member

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    That's kind of weird, I've played SGs quite a bit and never noticed it until I needed both hands to adjust something like my effects board, then it would slowly droop. While playing it wasn't anything even noticable. I've always wondered why people complained about it. Maybe certain SGs are balanced differently, but I've owned several and no prob.

    So try playing a Fender P bass for a couple months and then you'll never think about the neck dive again. :smile:

    A good strap makes a lot of difference. For example a wide leather strap that is rough unfinished leather on the inside but smooth and finished on the outside. The rough leather you won't see but it will grab onto your shirt a bit better and keep the guitar more steady. I have vintage one called a Fretsling that is great for connecting the guitar with your bod, but there are others as well.

    A good 5# weight superglued on the back of the body might help, but otherwise maybe an SG isn't for you? I don't know any other magical cures. A LP DC Junior might be a good option. You'll still have good fret access but it is more balanced.
     
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  18. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

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    That is pretty extreme :rofl: Can we see what you've done to it ?
     
  19. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    I think you've hit the nail on the head as far as these conflicting views are concerned. I recently noticed this in a couple of videos, which really help to clear things up.



    This should play from 16:24, it's a Baritone, and what you see is something I'd call 'neck creep' - there's no way that neck is diving! In fact he flashes up some text to say you don't notice this when playing at all. If this is what you experience with an SG, you'd think people talking about neck dive are crazy, and yes, you'd probably tell them to suck it up and hold the neck when playing...

    However' I'd now argue you've not experienced neck dive at all, we should be calling this 'neck creep', as that's all it's doing.



    This should play from 7:56, where he demonstrates the neck dive. That's a dive, and I've had two SGs that are more extreme than this! If you watch the whole video you'll see he actually liked this SG, but in the end he filmed the playing clips sitting down, because holding the neck all the time he was playing was interfering with his playing too much, and the neck dive put him off the model in the end. It's quite surprising to see how bad that is, as this model has a slightly thicker body, with a side jack, and a maple cap.

    Hopefully, understanding the range of possible experience here might enable us to all understand each other a bit better. Few people are likely to have an issue with neck creep, but as you move along the spectrum to the extremes of neck dive, it starts to be something you want to fix. And what works to fix it will depend where you're starting out on that spectrum.
     
  20. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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