When is a 1963 SG Special no longer a 1963 SG Special?

Discussion in 'Vintage SG' started by Jezclayton, Aug 21, 2020.

  1. Jezclayton

    Jezclayton Member

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    I came across this advert on the UK eBay site which should stir up some debate. Originally 1963 SG Special the guitar suffered a severe neck break around the 5th fret in the past and has had a replacement neck grafted on from the 5th fret to and including the headstock. None of the hardware is original and the guitar has been resprayed. The original Gibson logo was implanted into the new headstock and a serial number pressed into the back of the neck.

    Now this would have been an excellent choice for my Glenn Tipton project, which would involve butchering the guitar in any case, but at £2,250 someone is taking the preverbal. What do you think?

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264839317264?ul_noapp=true
     
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  2. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Pot codes indicate 1963.
    At least those are original.

    A guitar is only worth what someone will pay for it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
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  3. Bad Penguin

    Bad Penguin Well-Known Member

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    It's a parts guitar.
     
  4. Jezclayton

    Jezclayton Member

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    I read the original advert on my mobile whilst at work and misunderstood the part regarding the electrics, which are original, though the remaining hardware is not. The full advert reads as follows:

    1963 SG Special, offered up for either a straight sale or will take a trade/partial trade for something vintage. Not keen on shipping, would rather the buyer inspect in person.
    Original body and electrics, tailpiece, tuners, pickup covers and bridge replaced. The headstock must have been badly damaged as Jimmy Moon in Glasgow grafted a new part on to the end of the neck in 1995 using the original truss rod, binding and fingerboard. The join is about the 5th fret. The original Gibson logo was used on the new part, serial has been restamped, starts 170 but difficult to make out the last three numbers. The guitar was presumably resprayed in black at the same time. I have had the back of the neck resprayed since I bought it as someone had tried to touch it up and didn't do a great job. The last photo shows the neck as it was when I bought it.
    I have had the first 3 frets replaced, the others look to be original. The binding on the underside of the neck has been replaced from the nut to about the 3rd fret as this was missing.
    Guitar plays extremely well, nice low action throughout. Only selling as I have a couple of Tele's I use live (if we ever play another gig!) and want something more suited to playing around the house, early Melody maker or ES125TC would be good but open to offers. Comes with a new Hiscox case.

    There can be no doubt that Jimmy Moon is an exceptionally competent luthier and the neck repair would therefore be considered sound. I do wish the original headstock had been kept with the guitar as it would certainly have told a story and provided some confirmation of the correct serial number for the instrument. Ironically, because this instrument has been through the wars and has the scars to prove it, I find it more attractive than many of the alternative offerings from the period. It just feels like too much money?
     
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  5. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    The restoration work looks great.
    Perfect candidate for your project guitar.
    Asking price too high for what it is.
     
  6. papagayo

    papagayo Well-Known Member

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    Beautiful Gibson SG, the seller looks serious.
     
  7. zhivago

    zhivago Member

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    He has had it up for sale for a while....can't see it selling for anything near what the asking price is.
     
  8. Herbie74w

    Herbie74w Active Member

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    So I’m confused is his he saying the only thing that is non original is the bridge? Because if the electronics, pickups and pickguard are original that is a different story.
     
  9. Darryl Fisher

    Darryl Fisher Member

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    Offer them $500, see if he bites, then go $1000 if it's that uncertain of a build...neck repair, different logo, the things taking away the '63-ish and all...at their amount it's too pricey, great lutthier or not. To me, project guitars don't start in the thousands...
     
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  10. crashbelt

    crashbelt Member

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    Compared to what an all original SG Special can be bought for, this is a POS. Wouldn't go near it.

    My 62 is the best gigging guitar I have - wouldn't give this houseroom.
     
  11. SG John

    SG John Well-Known Member

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    I find the best way to haggle with folks is to go in person, with cash in hand. If you live near enough to see the guitar and play it, go. Then, if it is good and you want to buy it, bring up many of the points in this thread, and start with the low ball cash offers. When you contact the seller, do not mention money, just ask if you can see the guitar in person. Take it from there.
     
  12. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    Indeed confusing. I think he means "Original body and electrics. Tailpiece, tuners, pickup covers and bridge replaced" In any case, nice job though. But why he didn't replace the whole neck is beyond me. Also beyond me is why anyone would pay more than for one that's newer and without repairs. Don't think he's taking the proverbial but rather that he himself paid to much for it and tries to recoup. I think I'd pay 500 if I had it lying around and didn't know how else to spend it but I honestly can't see any reason to buy it at all. For your project I think you're better off with something else.
     
  13. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    Oh no, a Ship of Theseus debate!
     
  14. Mophead

    Mophead New Member

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    I have a question along the lines of 63ish sg specials. Mine has been butchered with a b5 bigsby and original p90’s gone. Someone attempted a humbucker install in the bridge pos then took it out and put some shitty p90’s back in. I have got a set of 59 hb to replace both. A little routing in the neck pos pickgaurd trimming. Holes in lower tailpiece area from wtf idk. I will cover these with a dtrucks vibrato cover. So now i am on to the bridge and possible stop bar addition. The specials have a straight slot wraparound originally. Does anyone know of a good source for an adapter from 73.5 mm to 82 mm for the studs to install a tunomatic?
     
  15. SG John

    SG John Well-Known Member

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    This would be the only way I could think of doing that, other than plugging the holes and installing new posts.

    https://www.crazyparts.de/tremolos-...gibson-bigsby-historic-abr-1-plate-nickel.php
     
  16. Steve D

    Steve D Well-Known Member

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    Yours is a high-brow type of post. Philosopher's have been contemplating the question of when something has change so much that its no longer the same thing since ancient greek times. Supposedly the ship of the hero Theseus was kept in the harbor at Athens for centuries and over time as planks rotted they were replaced. Eventually it still looked exactly the same in form but none of the parts were original anymore. So was it really still Theseus' ship? If not, when did it stop being his ship?

    One thing I do know is that if I were queued up to visit the ship of Theseus I'd definitely make the case that it was different enough to try to negotiate a cheaper ticket price, even if I thought 'of course it's still his ship!'
     
  17. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    Not that English is my first language but I'm fairly sure that "Original body and electrics, tailpiece, tuners, pickup covers and bridge replaced." reads "Everything replaced". Not that I think that's what he meant though.
     

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