where to go after the pentatonic scale ? Aeolian

Discussion in 'Lessons & Techniques' started by fahad187, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. fahad187

    fahad187 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    242
    Location:
    bahrain
    good evening

    i was going to search online for this but i though it would be better if i get the thoughts and opinions of the good guys here so school me guys :D

    i can play all the positions of minor pentatonic scale on any key and i stuck to that :rofl: mostly because of laziness and playing covers

    but now i want to learn something new modes / scales (nothing major) and whats the concept
    behind the modes is E Aeolian the same as A Aeolian but in different
    position

    thanks :cheers:
     
  2. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,363
    Likes Received:
    3,801
    Location:
    London, sitting in the garden
    In Bahrain all you are going to hear every minute of the day is minor pentatonic. I suggest you avoid local music and blues and sad country. You need to look to the avant garde of modern composers to find something that will take you far from that stuff. Maybe Messaien...
     
  3. jtcnj

    jtcnj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,338
    Likes Received:
    892
    Location:
    Out on the Tiles, in New Jersey
    Good luck in your quest to expand your skills and knowledge of theory
    The only thing I even remotely understand about this thread is "pentatonic scale"
     
    ChaseB likes this.
  4. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,844
    Likes Received:
    2,851
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    The next step is conquering all the added note variations that fall in between the notes outlining the Pentatonic scale. Throwing in those notes will add mood & a sense of speed as you learn to use hammer ons & pull offs in metered time. Hammer ons going up, pull offs going down.

    One of my warm up exercises is to (lets stick with A-) use the natural minor & play 3 notes on each string only plucking the first note (both up & down) and making the note ring out in time with hammer ons going up & pull offs going up. Then do the same scale & pick every note!

    While your at it, do the same thing with a lowered or dominant 7th!

    Here's a different one that's good for metal & R&R.
    Now, Do the same thing by adding a natural 2nd & minor 3rd, a 4th, a flat 5th and the 5th, a dominant 7th, a natural 7th & the octave. Yes it's a 9 note scale. I said it was different right?

    This is easy enough when starting on the low A but adding the next octave gets harder finding your hand position that is comfortable hitting all those notes and you will want to shift hand position to make it easier. Try to resist & find a way to play it smoothly anyway. You will develop dexterity & control as well as to start thinking in new ways & seeing things differently.

    I also love using scales that are probably closer to your modalities around home but while they sound different here where I live, they could either take on new life due to the instrument, sound & approach you're using or sound to familiar & 'boring'? I guess that would depend on you. Sometimes things sound fresh & exciting when using different instrumentation.
     
  5. dbb

    dbb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    9,958
    Likes Received:
    3,776
    Location:
    California
    How about older Egyptian, Lebanese and other non-Gulf Arabic music? That sure uses all sorts of "scales" or maqamat.
     
  6. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,363
    Likes Received:
    3,801
    Location:
    London, sitting in the garden
    I love all sorts of music, but somehow I have never been able to get my head around these older forms - the intervals are just too alien. And of course a modern guitar won't reproduce them.
     
  7. Sean '71

    Sean '71 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2016
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    192
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    May I suggest chordial notes...these are mostly associated with Jazz, and are not taught as they once were.

    The incomperatable Ms Carol Kaye, a legend of The Wrecking Crew fame and one of, if not the most recorded performer of all time with over 1000 credits to her name (some of the most recognisable songs of all time, Ms Kaye played bass on...and you would absolutely be gob-smacked if you saw her credits list...some of the biggest hits of the 50s', 60's and 70s' and some of the most memorable tv theme songs of all time) is a big proponent of chordial notes.

    Its something that is just not taught anymore. You can find more on her site here https://www.carolkaye.com/www/education/tips101.htm

    Ms Kaye has a some really good resources on her site, Do yourself a favor and have a look

    - Oh, and by the way, don't let the fact this lady played bass fool you, Ms Kaye is and has always been known as an accomplished studio session guitarist as well, long before taking up the bass, and resources on her site accomodate for both guitar and bass.:D

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Kaye
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
    dbb likes this.
  8. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,844
    Likes Received:
    2,851
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains

    Sean, your first link is dead & goes to a 404 error!
    I think you were trying to post this here...

    https://www.carolkaye.com/www/education/tips101.htm
     
  9. flatrockmobile

    flatrockmobile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    268
    Location:
    Douglasville, GA
    Not knowing what kind of music you're interested in makes it difficult to make suggestions. Obviously a Sabbath fan, and you mention certain modes.
    This would be a good place to start with them:

     
    fahad187 likes this.
  10. Sean '71

    Sean '71 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2016
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    192
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
  11. dbb

    dbb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    9,958
    Likes Received:
    3,776
    Location:
    California
    I love all those odd scales, but if it's too much you might listen to some Greek music, which uses mostly the same chromatic pitches and the Bouzouki is fretted like a guitar.


    This is important.

    The current "school" of jazz is based on the chord-scale concept that over certain chords you use certain scales. Every Abersold play-along book has a page of what scales to use over what chords.

    This method has some uses but the older way to play jazz is the way I was taught, using the chord arpeggios as the basic for improvisation. Personally I prefer the chordal tone arpeggio style....and so does Carol Kaye!
     
    Sean '71 likes this.
  12. Sean '71

    Sean '71 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2016
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    192
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    in a word....

    Yes :lol:
     
    dbb likes this.
  13. frankd

    frankd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,290
    Likes Received:
    2,048
    Ha I only wish I could even get started LOL but I just keep hacking away LOL learning by listening watching trying
    and screwing up more often than not.
     
  14. fahad187

    fahad187 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    242
    Location:
    bahrain
    yep thats right every body here is a 'BLUES" player :D and now i see alot of them moving to gypsy jazz

    but we have a good bands (few) and now people changed their mentality changed ( except for people from MUHARRAQ) they still think brothers band ( did you hear about the band ?) is the best band in the world :D
     
  15. fahad187

    fahad187 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    242
    Location:
    bahrain
    wow thanks a lot relic61

    very helpful:cheers:
     
  16. fahad187

    fahad187 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    242
    Location:
    bahrain

    a few musicians i know are playing these kind of stuff mostly adding 1/4 notes to give it a TURKISH feeling thats what the artists they work with asks them to do

    and iommi used it also @ 02:55

     
    Westernrider and dbb like this.
  17. fahad187

    fahad187 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    242
    Location:
    bahrain
    thanks Sean '71 for the suggestion i'll have alot of reading and studying to do on my night shift tomorrow :thumb:


    and thank you Relic61 again for fixing the link
     
  18. fahad187

    fahad187 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    242
    Location:
    bahrain

    yep a big sabbath fan :dude:

    i have no problems improvising over slow blues or "sad" backing tracks but i want to add something to my playing so it will not always sound "bluesy" for a harder & faster tracks

    and thank you for the video i learned somethings from it :naughty: going to finish it now
     
  19. Dadou

    Dadou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
    Messages:
    594
    Likes Received:
    351
    Location:
    Paris, France
    Why not simply natural, harmonic and melodic minor?
     
  20. @tommypistolen

    @tommypistolen Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    24
    Being Swedish I must recommend some inspiration from Swedish folk music. Loads of trippy scales. Jam a A B C D E F G# scale over Am/Dm/E7.
    Otherwise I like to throw in some arpeggios and chord specific notes in the pentatonic solos, to give it some flavor.
     

Share This Page