TheRedDonkey
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Has anyone ever put Bare Knuckle “the mule”humbuckers in a Gibson SG? How do they sound? Thought? I appreciate it!
Bare knuckle pickups
- Thread starter TheRedDonkey
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Norton
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I would expect there are hundreds of examples of this on YouTube.
maybe not hundreds, but quite a few examples.
maybe not hundreds, but quite a few examples.
Col Mustard
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Sure and how it sounds will depend more on your picking style, what strings you choose (AND how old they are)
as well as your effects you use (or don't use), how high or low you crank your pickup screws, how high or low you
keep your action, whether you crank your pole pieces to match the 12" radius of your Gibson's fretboard, whether
you lower the bass side of your neck pickup...
and most importantly what amp you play through and what mike you choose to run it through the P.A.
You can listen to what members here say about what their guitar sounds like through their signal chain
but the above will still be true. You can watch a video and listen to whatever tones they get through whatever
speakers you have with your computer, but the above will still be true.
There's really no simple snappy answer IMHO.
That said, Bare Knuckles makes excellent pickups. So does Gibson and Fralin and Seymour Duncan
and Rio Grande and even Golden Age from Stew Mac. You can spend a lot of money and effort
replacing perfectly good pickups, but if you ignore all those other factors none of what you do may
make sense. Just my opinion of course, based on experience.
as well as your effects you use (or don't use), how high or low you crank your pickup screws, how high or low you
keep your action, whether you crank your pole pieces to match the 12" radius of your Gibson's fretboard, whether
you lower the bass side of your neck pickup...
and most importantly what amp you play through and what mike you choose to run it through the P.A.
You can listen to what members here say about what their guitar sounds like through their signal chain
but the above will still be true. You can watch a video and listen to whatever tones they get through whatever
speakers you have with your computer, but the above will still be true.
There's really no simple snappy answer IMHO.
That said, Bare Knuckles makes excellent pickups. So does Gibson and Fralin and Seymour Duncan
and Rio Grande and even Golden Age from Stew Mac. You can spend a lot of money and effort
replacing perfectly good pickups, but if you ignore all those other factors none of what you do may
make sense. Just my opinion of course, based on experience.
TChalms
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This ^ !
I find it really hard to believe that there is a huge difference in tone between boutique pickup prices and Seymour Duncan or similar. I really did not like the muddy sounding pickups that came in my 2008 made in China Epi SG G-310 so I installed SD Jazz Neck and 59/Custom Bridge. And I totally love the tones - incredible clarity even when overdriven. But no, I don't play metal. I love the cleaner tones.
skelt101
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You might try asking @roknfnrol . I think he’s had experience with several different pickups in SGs…
Feebleknievel
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I don’t think bareknuckle are worth the price personally. I only buy expensive pickups if it’s something I can’t get at a cheaper price, a specific wind/magnet combination for example. I had a mule set in a 2011 sg but I sold it over 10 years ago. They were good, but from memory they’re just another paf. I now have an epiphone 61 sg. For humbuckers I only really use Tonerider. I had the Alnico 5 paf pickups in and I really liked them. I did try both the Alnico 2 and 4 pickups too but they had too much low end in the bridge, but that’s just me, I seem to prefer brighter sounding pickups as I currently have humbucker sized p90’s in the epiphone.
Funnily enough the best humbucker I’ve found for my sg is one of the tonerider PAF’s in the neck (I don’t mind a little more low end in the neck pickup) and their metal pickup, the Firepower, in the bridge. When I had that set in the sg could do anything. Mastadon type metal in D standard, sabbath, Thrash. Turn the volume down on the bridge and it was really good for lower gain crunchy stuff too.
In my opinion look at bareknuckle for the pickup you want and then look at a cheaper pickup that has a similar output and the same magnet. That will be very close to the bareknuckle and you can tell if you like that vibe for only £40. If off the back of that you decide to get the bareknuckes you can sell the tonerider and you’ve lost £15. Far better that than spending a lot on the Bareknuckes and finding out they don’t work for you.
Better yet you might find the Toneriders are what you want and you’ve saved hundreds!! :)
Funnily enough the best humbucker I’ve found for my sg is one of the tonerider PAF’s in the neck (I don’t mind a little more low end in the neck pickup) and their metal pickup, the Firepower, in the bridge. When I had that set in the sg could do anything. Mastadon type metal in D standard, sabbath, Thrash. Turn the volume down on the bridge and it was really good for lower gain crunchy stuff too.
In my opinion look at bareknuckle for the pickup you want and then look at a cheaper pickup that has a similar output and the same magnet. That will be very close to the bareknuckle and you can tell if you like that vibe for only £40. If off the back of that you decide to get the bareknuckes you can sell the tonerider and you’ve lost £15. Far better that than spending a lot on the Bareknuckes and finding out they don’t work for you.
Better yet you might find the Toneriders are what you want and you’ve saved hundreds!! :)
roknfnrol
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You know, that is one that I have never tried. I've heard great things. Right now I have OX4 low wind in my R9 and the Brickhouse Toneworks '60 in my SG.
TheRedDonkey
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Thank you
flognoth
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I'm a bit late to the thread. I really like Bare Knuckle, specifically their Black Dog pickup. It really works well for the sound I like. I've played a few sets of the Mule and personally, they didn't do it for me. I like a slightly higher output PAF style pickup.
The only downside to them if you're in the States is the import tax. I ordered two identical sets a couple of months ago (a couple of weeks apart). The tariff on the first was $40 and two weeks later it was $120 for the exact same thing. The tariff / tax wasn't yo yoing at that time. You might want to look on Reverb / eBay to avoid the tax if you want Bare Knuckles.
Curtis Novak and Wolftone pickups are some good alternatives that wouldn't have the tax, but might not have the same sound you're going for.
The only downside to them if you're in the States is the import tax. I ordered two identical sets a couple of months ago (a couple of weeks apart). The tariff on the first was $40 and two weeks later it was $120 for the exact same thing. The tariff / tax wasn't yo yoing at that time. You might want to look on Reverb / eBay to avoid the tax if you want Bare Knuckles.
Curtis Novak and Wolftone pickups are some good alternatives that wouldn't have the tax, but might not have the same sound you're going for.
KelvinS1965
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I think Mules are over £300 a pair now? Don't know how that translates to $ once any extra charges are added. I bought mine years ago when they were much more reasonable, though they are actually in my 1990 Epiphone Les Paul not my SG. I wouldn't buy them at today's prices though as good as they sounded at this evening's gig.
In fact I'd say I like the 61T/61R in my SG Standard just as much and I've rewired both guitars with the same metal braided wire, CTS pots and orange drop caps (the SG had a PCB in it originally and I didn't like the wobbly pots).
In fact I'd say I like the 61T/61R in my SG Standard just as much and I've rewired both guitars with the same metal braided wire, CTS pots and orange drop caps (the SG had a PCB in it originally and I didn't like the wobbly pots).
This is true for most pickups. The wholesale component cost of any humbucker is going to be a few bucks up to maybe $10-12 for domestic sourced components bought in low volumes. Everything else is overhead and profit margin.
The only thing separating BK from the pack is great marketing, QA/QC, and customer service. Like so many manufacturers, they claim they have the secret to famous players tones, and (magically) it’s just a few hundred more or less turns of wire in the same old 1950s design.
At the very least, you get a secondary benefit from their marketing in the form of better resale value (which may or may not offset the total cost of ownership). Given the same specs, lower cost shops like Tonerider, Bootstrap, or Q Pickups will perform identically… if only you can get past the mental block that expensive = good.
lawrev
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I just had installed a BK Blue Note 90 pickup in the bridge position of my 2004 Melody Maker. This is my second Blue Note 90 (underwound, more bluesy) and swear by them. Much better than the stock p90 that came with the guitar. Not a humbucker, but I am impressed with BK.
The pickup is in my avatar.
The pickup is in my avatar.
Norton
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I wind pickups for the guitars I build. Specifically because I am shooting for pickups that are VERY different from what's conventionally available.
It's incredibly easy to wind a functioning guitar pickup. But a good sounding pickup is WAAAAAAAY more than the sum of its raw parts.
A specific target that gets hit time and time again... that's worth paying for.
Throbak, bare knuckle... duncan, dimarzio, epiphone even... they're all great pickups. not the same at all. having options is Wonderfull.
It's incredibly easy to wind a functioning guitar pickup. But a good sounding pickup is WAAAAAAAY more than the sum of its raw parts.
A specific target that gets hit time and time again... that's worth paying for.
Throbak, bare knuckle... duncan, dimarzio, epiphone even... they're all great pickups. not the same at all. having options is Wonderfull.
jwd98056
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I haven't tried them in my SG since I really like the 490r/498t combination in my '02 Standard. I have a 2017 PRS S2 Mira that I did put Bare Knuckles in becuase I didn't care for the stock pickups all that much.
The S2 is of similar construction to the SG; mahogany body, mahogany set neck and rosewood finger board. The S2 is about 7 oz. lighter is all. My SG pickups drove my choice of a Mule neck and an Abraxas bridge pickup. Like the 490r/498t the Abraxas DC resistance is about twice that of the Mule. I also upgraded all the electonics and added microswitches to switch each of the pickups independantly.
I think the Bare Knuckles on my S2 really hit the mark. But as others haved already stated, tone is a very personal metric.
The S2 is of similar construction to the SG; mahogany body, mahogany set neck and rosewood finger board. The S2 is about 7 oz. lighter is all. My SG pickups drove my choice of a Mule neck and an Abraxas bridge pickup. Like the 490r/498t the Abraxas DC resistance is about twice that of the Mule. I also upgraded all the electonics and added microswitches to switch each of the pickups independantly.
I think the Bare Knuckles on my S2 really hit the mark. But as others haved already stated, tone is a very personal metric.
I agree on the QA/QC side, consistency is where big operations need to nail it, but I’d like to hear more about your experience that leads you to saying it’s way more than the sum of its parts. I’m assuming you mean wind pattern and tension?
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Norton
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yes! Tension has a HUGE impact on a pickup's voice... same with scatter. The deep divers will tell you that if you buy your wire in small spools it's already been stretched way beyond what the wire on a say a 50lb spool will ever be stretched.
since we're dealing with such small electromagnetic signals, all those tiny differences seem to get magnified. Magnet strength, all that stuff adds up.
There's a guy doing experiments on bobbins and how they can influence the sound of a pickup. He's gotten some really interesting results with 3d printed plastic bobbins in comparison to wood bobbins. The material resonance of the plastic seems to creep into and inform what the coil ends up sending through the amplifier. really interesting.
Some of the least refined pickups are my favorite. Dearmond foil pickups are super coarse... but when they wound those hot (11k or so) they can be incredible sounding, and versatile. and that's just 45? gauge wire wrapped around a magnet no real bobbin to speak of.
since we're dealing with such small electromagnetic signals, all those tiny differences seem to get magnified. Magnet strength, all that stuff adds up.
There's a guy doing experiments on bobbins and how they can influence the sound of a pickup. He's gotten some really interesting results with 3d printed plastic bobbins in comparison to wood bobbins. The material resonance of the plastic seems to creep into and inform what the coil ends up sending through the amplifier. really interesting.
Some of the least refined pickups are my favorite. Dearmond foil pickups are super coarse... but when they wound those hot (11k or so) they can be incredible sounding, and versatile. and that's just 45? gauge wire wrapped around a magnet no real bobbin to speak of.
Totally agreed, and I think what you’re describing is highly important in the context of material quality control and very important if you are straying from the “formula” of proven designs
The point I am making is that Seth Lover and co designed these to be mass produced by unskilled workers with mid century tolerances. A lot of what people obsess over are oddities to me - such as “hand wound / scatter wound”. The holy grail PAFs found in 59 bursts were not hand wound beyond feeding the wire into a Leesona 102 and turning the thing on!
The point I am making is that Seth Lover and co designed these to be mass produced by unskilled workers with mid century tolerances. A lot of what people obsess over are oddities to me - such as “hand wound / scatter wound”. The holy grail PAFs found in 59 bursts were not hand wound beyond feeding the wire into a Leesona 102 and turning the thing on!
Go Nigel Go
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Pretty much agree with your thoughts here. Do you have a link to the results you refer to above? I would not expect non-conductive materials like wood or plastic to affect anything in an electromagnetic system. The shape of the bobbin might affect coil position and distances in the field, but the bobbin material should be basically "inert". I ask from a standpoint of skeptical curiosity, I doubt this claim as stated, but I am willing to look at the methodology and results before saying it is wrong.
Norton
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When it pops back up on Instagram I’ll post a link.
What he’s finding (from acoustic analysis not ear tests) is that the printed bobbins have a specific resonant frequency and that frequency seems to get transmitted through the coil. Super interesting. And it makes sense.
Sympathetic resonances and all that. I can’t imagine how a plastic or wood bobbin would interact with the magnetic field other than in a spatial way. But this effect seems to be all about sympathetic resonances vibrating passively through the coil. Microphonic style??
What he’s finding (from acoustic analysis not ear tests) is that the printed bobbins have a specific resonant frequency and that frequency seems to get transmitted through the coil. Super interesting. And it makes sense.
Sympathetic resonances and all that. I can’t imagine how a plastic or wood bobbin would interact with the magnetic field other than in a spatial way. But this effect seems to be all about sympathetic resonances vibrating passively through the coil. Microphonic style??
Go Nigel Go
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The only thing I can think of is the bobbin moving, and moving the coils with it. Theoretically, the coils moving would induce a current just like the movement of the magnetic field lines induced by the string vibration. I would just expect the movement of the bobbin and windings would be substantially dampened by their own mass, but if someone controls for all other variables (shape, size, mass, etc.) and can demonstrate a measurable change, well, that is science!
