1971 SG Deluxe - First of many questions!

[bjh517]

Hi Everyone

I just purchased a shell of a 1971 SG Deluxe. I know this is not everyone's favorite model, but it was my first real guitar growing up and I am looking forward to restoring it. I have built many electric guitars from scratch using a nitro finish, but never restored a guitar.

I can't tell if it is nitro or poly. It seems in-between the two: too thick for nitro and too thin for poly.
Does anyone know what Gibson was using in 1971? I have read contradictory information on the web.
I have attached few pics in case that might help.

Thanks
Brian

 

[JohnnyGoo]

No idea about the type of finish but Welcome and nice SG.post the restore pictures as you go.

 

[syscokid]

Are you sure that the guitars finish is original?
Cool project that you have bestowed upon yourself. Lots of us here love threads like this. Welcome to ETSG...

 

[bjh517]

Hi, thanks so much. I am looking forward to sharing my experiences with this restoration.
No, I am not sure it is original. The previous owner thought it was, but we all know that means nothing.
If I were stripping it totally, I wouldn't care what it is finished in because I would be removing it all and starting from scratch. But I was hoping to retain some of the bleeding into the binding and the aging of the finish over the headstock inlay. If it's poly and I strip the entire guitar except for those two areas, and spray nitro over those areas, it won't stick........ If it's nitro, I can get away with a light sanding and a respray over top.

 

[Gibsg]

This is a nitro finish, 100% sure.

I noticed that the finish feels different on Norlin SG.

 

[paul-e-mann]

What boggles me is what looks to be a perfectly good guitar, why someone would abuse it and sell it for scrap??? Good luck with that project.

 

[Relic61]

Hey B! We have the same guitar!



Mine is 100% original minus the removed pickup covers on those beautiful sounding Patent # Sticker pups.

The finish on both looks very similar & yet I personally feel mine looks a little different in person.

I also have an extra period correct Gibson embossed Bigsby tailpiece if you're interested.



Mine plays very much like a Les Paul & has one of the firmest necks I ever felt on an SG!
Awesome player with awesome tone.
I know you're going to enjoy this.
If I can help you with anything just get a hold of me. And enjoy the resto!

What boggles me is what looks to be a perfectly good guitar, why someone would abuse it and sell it for scrap??? Good luck with that project.

I feel ya on that one bro! Why someone thinks they need to do this to make a couple bucks is penny ante nickle dime bull$#it that is just beyond me. It just feels greedy & wrong on some levels. But that's me.

 

[Relic61]

Did I kill this thread or ar we the only guitar players interested in these early 70's SG Deluxe guitars???

I love this guitar so much that it stays out on a stand in my living-room & I play it everyday!
Every time I go to the studio to record she gets a fresh string change & comes along to serve guitar duty.
She has a rich & beautifully full yet crisp sounding bridge pickup that is quite simply a shear joy to play & hear. Just add some drive & its harmonic content widens even further never sounding thin nor brittle while still able to soar & cut through any mix.

The neck pup takes full advantage of it era specific placement right next to the neck & fretboard & underneath the second octave of what would be the 24th fret & all of that positions naturally strong string harmonics. The neck pup is also naturally strong & offers a perfect woman tone with a driven amp & the guitars tone pot rolled off. She can also really nail a Les Pauls tone thanks to the way these guitars were made.

Those Bigsby's are always tough trem to get return to pitch use out of, but can be coerced into cooperating better with some nut lube, proper string wrapping technique & some other Bigsby B5 tricks.

So come on bro! How excited are you man!??
I get excited just talking about these guitars!
Rock n Roll

 

[DPaulCustom]

One of these on the local C'list
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/msg/5834697975.html

 

[syscokid]

One of these on the local C'list
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/msg/5834697975.html

Cool guitar. Price is high, but he states OBO too. There's a nasty splintered type of damage on the back of the headstock.

 

[DPaulCustom]

Maybe one of the books he needs to buy would be a vintage guitar pricing guide.

 

[DPaulCustom]

Saw this one on the same page, pretty cool.
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/msg/5839401531.html

 

[syscokid]

Maybe one of the books he needs to buy would be a vintage guitar pricing guide.

He probably paid up the a$$ for it in Finland last year.

 

[Relic61]

Cool guitar. Price is high, but he states OBO too. There's a nasty splintered type of damage on the back of the headstock.

You said it all, perfectly!

Maybe one of the books he needs to buy would be a vintage guitar pricing guide.

Oh SNAP! Nailed it!

 

[Relic61]

Saw this one on the same page, pretty cool.
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/msg/5839401531.html

Hmm..


21 fret bolt-on & bound neck with a Pre-Ban design 5 ply bound headstock,





Gnarly cool lookin vintage Bigsby (Copy) with a wild heavy duty string roller bar (this one might not actually roll at all??), Funky & Chunky long travel intonatable bridge, Microphonic Pups (PAF's were somewhat microphonic too right!?)





All held together by an old neck pocket break & repair that's been holding for years for $300!



The broken & repaired neck pocket is the only thing stopping this from being a no-brainer of a buy! And even though the collective sum of these vintage (but still off brand copy) pieces may add up to some value, you would still have to part this guitar out or find a better body to mate it all with to see any value by way of resale, & even then, nobody's getting bank off this no matter which way you cut this pie! I found several same era pre-ban Electra Les Pauls selling for $5-600 on ebay in varying states of original condition. None of them had a broken neck or neck pocket repair.

Gold top $399.oo

'72 for $445.oo

Les Paul Custom $599.oo

But for this a guitar 'as is',.. That break just kills this from being a real deal, regardless of what the owner says & thinks. And these Electra Les Pauls up above can back that up & be used to your advantage during negotiation.

On the other hand... $300 bucks is small potatoes if you are into vintage pre-ban Gibson copies like this.
This is simply going to have its value determined by how into this era SG the new buyer is & how badly the current owner needs cash!

You mention the pups having a following & some market demand, I would also think that the bolt on neck from the pre-ban design days which copies the outline & shape of a Gibson headstock might have some decent resale value on its own merit also.

I'd say if anybody was interested to make an offer while being as knowledgeable & factual as you can & factually stressing the very real loss of value due to that break in the neck pocket. And yes it was a break & repair which sounds a whole lot more serious than "the last guy who owned it said 'something happened to the neck"!
Something happened alright! He broke the fvk'n neck is what happened!

For the semi & quasi interested, If the seller don't move down off the $300 after a well presented offer then let him sit on it going un-sold while remaining politely interested & in contact. But, If someone really likes this old Electra pre-ban SG Copy then make a polite offer & take what he throws back at ya.
There is nothing to loose by asking for what we want in life.

 

[PermissionToLand]

I doubt that was actually broken. Just common finish cracking all bolt-ons get over time. My Strat and bolt-on LP have it too.

To the OP: Definitely Nitro, Gibson has never used Poly. And I'd bet it's original. The color is one of the options offered back then, and it wouldn't surprise me to know Norlins had thicker paintjobs. Thickness doesn't tell you anything about the finish. My Samick has Poly thinner than my Gibson's Nitro.

 

[Relic61]

I doubt that was actually broken. Just common finish cracking all bolt-ons get over time. My Strat and bolt-on LP have it too.

Honestly, we don't really know if that's true or not concerning the past / present state of that neck pocket area. There photos or photo given just isn't enough.

But think about this quote...

The guy who had it before me said something happened to the neck but he paid a bunch of money to fix it.

If this neck pocket was what he spent a 'bunch of money' on "to fix", it certainly wasn't to repair surface cracks because they are quite obvious & not fixed because... we can still see them. So I doubt that's what was 'fixed'.
Was there another place on the neck that needed to be fixed?? If so, he showed no picture of it.

If I was buying this guitar I would have to call this a broken neck repair (I see glue smudge) and try to negotiate a lower price.
Obviously, this guitar has issues!

If anyone is serious about it, it would require examining it in person as the pictures just aren't good or sufficient enough to draw an accurate conclusion, unless you dont GAF one way or the other & are ok with assuming it's been broken & repaired.
Personally, I would have to remove the neck & see what's really going on as well as be able to see the whole area around it as well. We didn't even get a backside shot.

Short of getting viable clarifying information & my not being able to actually examine that neck pocket, I simply personally would have to consider the neck pocket broken & repaired & negotiate a price under that assumption. To not do so would be potentially setting yourself up for a burning disappointment. These pictures & "the last owner said" info given just isn't enough to rule out that possibility.

"The guy who had it before me said something happened to the neck but he paid a bunch of money to fix it."

 

[PermissionToLand]

Honestly, we don't really know if that's true or not concerning the past / present state of that neck pocket area. There photos or photo given just isn't enough.

But think about this quote...

If this neck pocket was what he spent a 'bunch of money' on "to fix", it certainly wasn't to repair surface cracks because they are quite obvious & not fixed because... we can still see them. So I doubt that's what was 'fixed'.
Was there another place on the neck that needed to be fixed?? If so, he showed no picture of it.

If I was buying this guitar I would have to call this a broken neck repair (I see glue smudge) and try to negotiate a lower price.
Obviously, this guitar has issues!

If anyone is serious about it, it would require examining it in person as the pictures just aren't good or sufficient enough to draw an accurate conclusion, unless you dont GAF one way or the other & are ok with assuming it's been broken & repaired.
Personally, I would have to remove the neck & see what's really going on as well as be able to see the whole area around it as well. We didn't even get a backside shot.

Short of getting viable clarifying information & my not being able to actually examine that neck pocket, I simply personally would have to consider the neck pocket broken & repaired & negotiate a price under that assumption. To not do so would be potentially setting yourself up for a burning disappointment. These pictures & "the last owner said" info given just isn't enough to rule out that possibility.

"The guy who had it before me said something happened to the neck but he paid a bunch of money to fix it."

My thought on that was; he took it to a luthier who told him it was a serious crack and charged him up the wazoo to "fix" it. I'm no expert, but I've not seen a neck hairline fracture that cleanly and not go all the way through. Usually, neck breaks are seriously messy, no?

But yes, of course do your due diligence, which may not be worth too much effort on a $300 guitar (which should really be more like $150 in reality, neck break or not).

 

[Relic61]

OK, being what I thought was a well thought out assessment of this lawsuit SG copy seemed to have gotten somewhat brought into questioned .. Akhemm... LOL I just had to email the seller & find out the read deal!

First of all, the guy got a kick out of me using his own words to corner him into coming clean & avoiding a sale with potential problems afterward. His Response quoted below...

Haha You read really into this. Yes, it has def been repaired,

Ya know?? If it was broken, why not just say it was frik'n broken? Why tip-toe & cleverly dance around the issue leaving things unsaid & potentially bringing problems & hassles into your sale?! Hassles like my email if nothing else right?! LOL WTF.

Anyway, he does come more or less clean in his email & admits to the neck pocket being 'broken' & glued!!
"Yes, it has def been repaired, that is exactly what I was getting at," "they just had to glue it back together".

AKA: "Neck Pocket Break & Repair".

I'm gonna just leave it like that