'61 SG with vs. without baked maple fretboard - does it matter?

[srmd22]

I am looking at a couple of these on the net, and one is a 2012 with a baked maple FB, the other is an earlier one, 2005 I think, with the usual specs (RW).

I owned a 2012 '61 RI in the past, and I could swear it was rosewood - I believe I even asked Gibson via email, and confirmed, though it was awhile back. I could not confirm if it was laminate, which Gibson did that year, as I am sure everyone recalls.

In any event, that was a bit of a snappy feel on that guitar, but the difference was not really dramatic, and I would not know if that slightly snappier feel really had anything to do with the FB material or lamination, etc.

I have played a few baked maple FB's on other guitars though, and it definitely has felt different to me (basically like a really smooth maple - quite nice actually.

What are peoples opinions experiences - would you care about which it was on an SG? Were all the 2012 '61 RI's baked maple? I know on gibson it lists there "'61 RI SG satin" as baked maple, but I don't know if that was just a subset of them, or what years those were made, even.

 

[Gahr]

In my humble opinion (based on limited experience, but I have played guitars with baked maple fretboards), the fretboard material doesn't make any difference at all sound wise. I don't care what anybody says, if it feels good to play, that's what matters.

 

[bwotw]

In my humble opinion (based on limited experience, but I have played guitars with baked maple fretboards), the fretboard material doesn't make any difference at all sound wise. I don't care what anybody says, if it feels good to play, that's what matters.

I feel the same way, I don't think fretboard material affects sound.

A while ago, I was researching acoustic guitars (I was buying my first one) and I was really surprised when I saw people in the acoustic forums consider the rosewood vs ebony fretboard debate mostly a matter of looks, feel, and status. So, if acoustic players don't think fretboard has a noticeable effect on the natural sound, the chances of any wood carachter being picked up by the pickups are slim, IMO. Sometimes, us electric guitar players are real corksniffers, after all

I wouldn't mind baked maple in a SG at all.

My only gripes with BM are two: sometimes it looks very light (and I tend to prefer the darker boards) and it seems to negatively affect resale value (good news if you're buying, though )

 

[srmd22]

@Gahr I am coming to the conclusion after a few years of playing a few, and thinking on it, that I pretty much agree with you, although not quite as emphatically. I think it may make a slight difference, but it is so subjective it is a discussion which will never be settled. Some people (like me) think they hear a difference in tone, at least acoustically, which partially translates through a clean amplifier (but imo, is completely inaudible once you put a bit of overdrive on there). But I have to say, the difference is really minor, and I admit, I can't prove it objectively. This applies to ebony, maple and rosewood as well. I like all three, so I kind of answer my own question there.

@bwotw Those are excellent observations.

 

[Norton]

Roger sadowsky wrote a great essay on guitar construction and which components have the biggest impact on the overall voice of a guitar.

He says the neck on an electric guitar is the single biggest influencing factor of a guitar's voice outside of the pickups/electronics. If memory serves The fretboard is next on his list.

This isn't the essay but he does get into some of his building experience with materials. He's an interesting guy for sure.

http://auditorysynapses.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-timeless-resonance-of-roger-sadowsky.html?m=1

 

[cerebral gasket]

Placebo Effect

 

[Biddlin]

IMO, baked maple is not a less desirable fretboard.

 

[lcw]

Torrified :)

 

[srmd22]

Well, I pulled the trigger on a black 2012 for $1000 shipped. In "very good condition" with minimal wear, one little ding. It's basically a black version of the white one I sold a year ago, although that one was mint. Now the fun begins, and I get to perseverate with comparing this one to my standard. I need to go change my avatar now, as the SGJ is gone.

 

[deMelo]

Mine is a 2012, baked maple board.

I gig professionally and never noticed a difference.

 

[Col Mustard]

I bought a 2012 SG Special "70s tribute" with baked maple fretboard, maple neck,
'70s style oversize headstock, Corian nut, Tone Pros "Gibson Deluxe" tuners, acrylic block inlays,
mini-humbuckers, "Gibson" 500k pots, and a satin silver burst finish.

The attraction for me is that this guitar was completely unique. Nothing like any other SG
being sold in the spring of 2013. These didn't sell well in 2012, partly due to negativity about
the baked maple, and partly due to closed minded guitarists not knowing how to classify this
instrument... (is it a rocker or a head banger or a blues boy or what...) Guys didn't know what
little box to put this instrument in, so they didn't fork over their cash for it. I like it because
of this... I don't fit in any little box either.

So I got this guitar for a very advantageous price, which made it irresistible ...
It's one of my favorites. Anyone who doesn't care for the reddish brown look of the
fretboard need only get some "fret Doctor" and apply it to the baked maple
and it darkens up nicely.

Anyway, the baked maple is a fine fretboard material. Hard and smooth and dark, almost
like ebony (but of course, it's obviously NOT ebony). Mine has given no trouble. Fast and
comfortable. Because of all the other unique features, I couldn't tell you if the fretboard has
any effect on tone. All I can say is that I love the tone (and the feel) of this guitar.
Gibson re-issued this model in like 2016 I believe... with the same features except for no baked maple (and no silver burst).
I love the mini-hums.

The re-issues are selling well enough now, with Rosewood. So the baked maple fretboard is an advantage to the
buyer, who gets a great guitar for less money, and it is a disadvantage for the quick flip
for profit kind of guy, who has a hard sell to the closed minded.

Anyway, congratulations on an excellent choice. Les Pauls from that year might also
suffer from the imaginary stigma of the baked maple, and be available for low prices.}
I would not hesitate to buy one. I love getting a hell of a guitar for smaller money than
you'd expect. My contribution to the debates on the effect of 'tone wood" on electric guitar
signal is to remind everyone that wood is like, not magnetic. *shrugs

 

[deMelo]

Gibson has used many materials and differently treated rosewood over the years, and I've never seen a real player (I mean an artist or a pro gigger) say a word on any of them being bad tonewise or not.

We guitar lovers tend to give attention to every slight detail on our instruments, something that our idols and our fellow guitarists who are in the business for real never do. Artists play modded guitars, guitars fixed with epoxy (!!!), exchange parts (take a look at Clapton's Blackie, Gilmour's black strat or Marc Bolan's les paul for example), they switch necks, strip off finishes, repaint the guitars to make them look like what they saw during acid trips...

So, my SG is a '61 RI with a baked maple FB.

I bought it, read a bit about the maple board, oiled it and forgot about it. I don't remember having ever remembered what the fretboard was made of while playing, either at home, in the studio or while gigging. It sounds exactly like... a Gibson SG.

I think I'd worry if it was a laminated RW board, I'd be afraid of it coming all loose at some point, expecially due to oil conditioning if necessary...

It's a Gibson SG, man. Gibson made it that way. Play it.

 

[lcw]

I have a 2011 SG Standard 'Limited'... just a Standard with different finish than the typical ebony or cherry...

The baked maple neck on this one is very light compared to the Col's. But it's very smooth, and uniform and feels terrific.

 

[Norton]

there's absolutely nothing wrong with "baked maple" Or phenolic/ "resin wood" for a fretboard.

The material choice (esp the neck/fretboard) according to Sadowsky et.al. Is a major contributing factor to the voice of a guitar. HOWEVER....

Different isn't bad. It's just different. And the only way anyone would likely be able to hear a difference would be in a side by side comparison. It's not an apples vs. oranges difference. More like one kind of apple vs another. I like the honey crisp, some people like the Granny Smith. Apples are good esp in a pie.

Is it an SG?

Then It's probably cool.

 

[srmd22]

I bought a 2012 SG Special "70s tribute" with baked maple fretboard, maple neck,
'70s style oversize headstock, Corian nut, Tone Pros "Gibson Deluxe" tuners, acrylic block inlays, ...
Gibson re-issued this model in like 2016 I believe... with the same features except for no baked maple (and no silver burst).
I love the mini-hums.

The re-issues are selling well enough now, with Rosewood. So the baked maple fretboard is an advantage to the
buyer, who gets a great guitar for less money, and it is a disadvantage for the quick flip
for profit kind of guy, who has a hard sell to the closed minded.
... My contribution to the debates on the effect of 'tone wood" on electric guitar
signal is to remind everyone that wood is like, not magnetic. *shrugs

I have been eyeballing those specials with the mini hums ever since they came out - I kinda want one, but no room in the collection for the time being.

As for the FB, not magnetic, but some will say it can sound subtly (or less subtly) different, and that difference can transmit through the pickups, just like all the other differences - otherwise just put strings on a piece of plastic :)

Gibson has used many materials and differently treated rosewood over the years, and I've never seen a real player (I mean an artist or a pro gigger) say a word on any of them being bad tonewise or not.

We guitar lovers tend to give attention to every slight detail on our instruments, something that our idols and our fellow guitarists who are in the business for real never do. Artists play modded guitars, guitars fixed with epoxy (!!!), exchange parts (take a look at Clapton's Blackie, Gilmour's black strat or Marc Bolan's les paul for example), they switch necks, strip off finishes, repaint the guitars to make them look like what they saw during acid trips...

So, my SG is a '61 RI with a baked maple FB.

I bought it, read a bit about the maple board, oiled it and forgot about it. I don't remember having ever remembered what the fretboard was made of while playing, either at home, in the studio or while gigging. It sounds exactly like... a Gibson SG.

I think I'd worry if it was a laminated RW board, I'd be afraid of it coming all loose at some point, expecially due to oil conditioning if necessary...

It's a Gibson SG, man. Gibson made it that way. Play it.

This (highlighted) is only partly true - a lot of pros are serious gear nerds, and are just as anal and analytical as collectors. I was a pro in my previous life, and was not as into the stats of guitars at the time, but was still really intense about how the guitar's tone seemed - just didn't think about the why's as much. It is true though, that many of our idols played some pretty messed up guitars, lol. In the end, you gotta just play the thing.

But I wouldn't even bother coming to a forum like this much if I didn't think it was fun to explore the concepts of what influences tone - I think it is a valid conversation.

I have a 2011 SG Standard 'Limited'... just a Standard with different finish than the typical ebony or cherry...

The baked maple neck on this one is very light compared to the Col's. But it's very smooth, and uniform and feels terrific.

View attachment 28467

How about a pic of the rest of it :) I am intrigued by the finish now!

 

[Biddlin]

what influences tone

I have found that tens of thousands of hours of playing (somewhere around 60,000 in my case) has had the greatest influence on my tonal quality and diversity. I have owned at least 40 electric and acoustic guitars, 2 dozen amps, used every type and gauge of string imaginable, studied Nick Manoloff, Gabor Szabo, Charlie Byrd and Carlos Santana extensively and can only cite time spent with guitar in hand as being of any significant influence on my "tone." With only a couple of exceptions, the guitars have all sounded fine when played with appropriate technique, the sour notes are all on me.

 

[srmd22]

Ah, the ever present "tone is in the fingers" philosophy :) So, then, when you play a nylon string classical acoustic it sounds the same as and Ibanez shredder guitar through cranked 5150? That is really cool! I guess my fingers are not yet that developed - let me go back and do another 40k hours of practice. (sorry the ironic tones there are coming off worse in print then I intend, I am joking - but making a point).

 

[lcw]

How about a pic of the rest of it :) I am intrigued by the finish now!

It's over in my NGD post from a week or so ago...

 

[lcw]

Gibson's FAQ on 'baked maple'... (from: http://www.gibson.com/Support/FAQ-Tonewoods.aspx)

What is baked maple?

Torrefaction is a process of heat-curing wood in a special kiln. This process makes the wood significantly stronger and virtually impervious to moisture, making it structurally ideal for fingerboards. As a natural bi-product of the process, the wood gains a warm, brown finish and looks remarkably similar in color to rosewood. Tonally, though, it's closer to ebony due to its hardness.

Tonally, if baked maple is closer to ebony than rosewood, why is the maple not being used across the board as an alternative to ebony?

On certain guitars, ebony is chosen more for aesthetic reasons than for tone. In addition, ebony was specified on some guitars simply because certain rosewood species (like Indian rosewood), tend to "bleed" into light-colored lacquer finishes. The blackness of the ebony is not aesthetically duplicated by maple, even when baked. Therefore, we don't use baked maple as an across-the-board substitute.

Is it possible to bake the maple to the point where it is black like ebony?

Not without compromising its structural integrity… and turning it into charcoal.

How does a player care for the new fretboard materials?

As with all fine wood, periodic treatment of the wood with lemon oil or orange oil will nourish the wood and enhance the grain. However, Richlite will not absorb the oil, so it is not recommended for those models so equipped.

 

[deMelo]

This (highlighted) is only partly true - a lot of pros are serious gear nerds, and are just as anal and analytical as collectors. I was a pro in my previous life, and was not as into the stats of guitars at the time, but was still really intense about how the guitar's tone seemed - just didn't think about the why's as much. It is true though, that many of our idols played some pretty messed up guitars, lol. In the end, you gotta just play the thing.

But I wouldn't even bother coming to a forum like this much if I didn't think it was fun to explore the concepts of what influences tone - I think it is a valid conversation.

Thing is, the pros (you and me included, I play professionally as well, though I ain't famous) do care about details and can be anal about it, but you'll agree that they do it with details that matter TO THEM. If the guitar serves its purposes, that's what matters...

And I never said the discussion wasn't valid, I was saying that many people regard the baked maple boarded SGs as "lesser" SGs, but they are not. They are just SGs made in a particular time when Gibson used that wood and they do sound great.

Cheers!