Epiphone "Inspired by Gibson Custom Shop" 1964 SG Standard - How Does It Stack Up Against the 'Real Thing'?

[H-bomb]

Okay, so I did a thing. I pulled the trigger on one of the new 1964 Custom Shop-Inspired SG Standards. Wow!

Definitely in my top three favorite Epiphone releases and I've purchased in the last few years. I took some pictures with it next to the actual Gibson Custom Shop version, and I have to say that aside from a couple of cosmetic differences and a different shaped neck, this thing really does bring you a lot of the same feel and sound as its big sister.
I'll let the pictures do most of the talking, but what I will say is that aside from the lack of tapering on that upper horn tip, a cosmetic detail that Gibson only started doing on their model the last year and a half or so, the rest of the sculpting is great. Not quite as dramatic as on the real thing, but close enough, and honestly, looks every bit as good as the 2019 through mid 2023 models coming from the actual Custom Shop. The recent Gibson Custom Shop ones have definitely become a new standard, if you'll forgive the pun for historical accuracy, but this one will do just fine for a fraction of the price.

The other major point I wanted to make was about how cool this finish is. I hate the term "VOS". Always have. I don't even know how it works as a marketing thing because it's kind of just nonsensical and misleading. When I think of a vintage original "sheen", well, I just simply think of a nitrocellulous gloss finish. Because that's literally what they came in when they were brand new. So I never understood the marketing behind VOS. Especially when it basically means gloss finish, but with some schmutz or something rubbed on it to make it look older. Much like with some of the factory aging and all that, it just never sat well with me, never quite looked right and I will always just prefer a brand new glossy finish that I can wear down and break in myself over time. That being said...

Compared to the previous 1961 SG Les Paul Standard Version, which I also own, this finish is definitely a little glossier than that, but not quite the plasticky high-gloss you see on most import guitars. This kind of reminds me of some of those Taylor Guitars where they still use polyurethane finishes or whatever, but they apply it thinner and in some sort of different method so that it results in something that's glossy, but not high-gloss, and even feels different in your hand on the neck. Definitely feels more like a Nitro finish than your run of the mill polyester or polyurethane finish. You can see in the comparison shot with the 1961 version how much more reflective the 1964 is. I think this is a decent compromise between an actual gloss finish and something that is supposed to look a little more antiqued or whatever. I think it will buff up well if you want to put some wax or something on it to make it a little shinier, but I also think it provides a very nice contact surface on the back of the neck for people who don't like really glossy necks.

If they would have shaped the upper horns a little different on these, it might be a little more historically accurate, but honestly, for my purposes, the rest of the guitar is so nice I don't even care at this price. The fret edges might not be quite as smooth as on the Gibson, but they're not uncomfortable by any means, and the rosewood fretboard is beautiful. I can't recommend this one enough if you're on the fence about it. I liked the previous off-the-shelf Epi '61 Standard with Maestro just fine, but I will admit that the weird looking top veneer always bugged me a little bit. Not a problem here. I know this guitar is twice as expensive as the regular issue Epiphone, but with the upgraded electronics, the hard shell case and the overall aesthetic of this thing so close to being spot on, I can't complain.

 

[Norton]

NICE! those are the first shots I've seen that show how well they got the horn bevels and carves. Looks like a winner.

VOS... I always thought that was Vintage Old Stock. and that finish was meant to replicate what an old guitar would look like if it was left in a closet and brought forward in time. the nickel would cloud, the shine would dull.. etc.

How's the neck profile on the new epiphone sg?

 

[Tony65x55]

Looks terrific, how does it sound?

 

[H-bomb]

NICE! those are the first shots I've seen that show how well they got the horn bevels and carves. Looks like a winner.

VOS... I always thought that was Vintage Old Stock. and that finish was meant to replicate what an old guitar would look like if it was left in a closet and brought forward in time. the nickel would cloud, the shine would dull.. etc.

How's the neck profile on the new epiphone sg?

Yeah, aside from the lack of tapering (body-thickness-wise) the bevels and such are well done...looks like all the Custom Shop/Historic models pre-mid-2023.

I remember when "VOS" was first introduced, and it makes even less sense 20-something years later. I'll never quite understand it.

The neck profile it the "least '64 thing" about this Epiphone. It's definitely a Slim Taper style neck, feels like the '61 SG/LP Standard. Not a bad neck at all, but a true '64 would have a little more meat on it. Since I'm accustomed to both profiles (and others), I can get on well with any of them, but it feels almost identical to the IBGC '61 SG/LP for sure.

 

[H-bomb]

Looks terrific, how does it sound?

Virtually indistinguishable from the Gibson. I mean, same basic wood species, same pickups...any differences are negligible at best. And I am confident that with a couple turns of the screwdriver to adjust the pickup height, I can dial them in to sound identical.

 

[TwinACStacks]

Have both, except for headstock shape they are virtually the same except the Epi is 700 less.

 

[papagayo]

How much did you pay for this chinese copy ?

 

[Les’s Nemisis]

Couple questions:

My objection to a lot of the aged finishes isn't the shine level per se, but the fact that they don't fill the grain. No Gibson ever left the factory like that back in the day and no nitro finish soaked in that much. But that hasn't stopped Gibson and Epi from selling them like that.

Do these have the grain filled and just a slightly satin finish? Or are they open grain?

You mentioned that the neck is like the Epi '61 SG/LP. I know they're calling it Slim Taper, but is it more of a C or a D? One thing I don't get along with the the flat back D Epi has been using a lot lately. A shallow C is find with me, or a true Gibson style Slim Taper C 60's as long as it's not one of the husky ones.

What are your thoughts on neck shape and thickness?

 

[glocknroll]

''t'Yeah, aside from the lack of tapering (body-thickness-wise) the bevels and such are well done...looks like all the Custom Shop/Historic models pre-mid-2023.

I remember when "VOS" was first introduced, and it makes even less sense 20-something years later. I'll never quite understand it.

The neck profile it the "least '64 thing" about this Epiphone. It's definitely a Slim Taper style neck, feels like the '61 SG/LP Standard. Not a bad neck at all, but a true '64 would have a little more meat on it. Since I'm accustomed to both profiles (and others), I can get on well with any of them, but it feels almost identical to the IBGC '61 SG/LP for sure.

I apologize for my ignorance, but I don't know what "IBGC" stands for. I'm guessing GC is "Gibson Custom", but I've been wrong before.

 

[papagayo]

My 1300 €uros Gibson USA SG, this is not a chinese copy, sorry .....

 

[DrBGood]

I apologize for my ignorance, but I don't know what "IBGC" stands for. I'm guessing GC is "Gibson Custom", but I've been wrong before.

Inspired By

 

[papagayo]

I apologize for my ignorance, but I don't know what "IBGC" stands for. I'm guessing GC is "Gibson Custom", but I've been wrong before.

Insane Buiseness Gibson Copy ,

 

[jfine]

I apologize for my ignorance, but I don't know what "IBGC" stands for. I'm guessing GC is "Gibson Custom", but I've been wrong before.

Inspired By Gibson Custom

 

[H-bomb]

My 1300 €uros Gibson USA SG, this is not a chinese copy, sorry .....

View attachment 57331

I see you keep referring to the Epiphone as a "Chinese copy" and apparently have some kind of issue with them. That's unfortunate, because it's quite an unnecessarily elitist viewpoint to have against guitars that punch well above not just their weight class, but a lot of "Made in USA" guitars. And as someone who also owns USA and Custom Shop Gibsons, and I can honestly say I find the Epiphone offerings to be more impressive than the "USA" crap. "USA Made" doesn't mean what it used to, and is no guarantee of superiority.

I've kept two USA Gibsons that I felt were worth keeping (my first-gen Angus Young SG and my 2013 SG "Original"), and I do love my Custom Shop M2M '64 SG Standard. I sold a couple of "meh" pre-2019 Gibson USA guitars to get the Custom Shop, and also purchased two USA SG's brand new in 2022: a Junior and a sideways vibrola '61. I got rid of both because I hated the finish color on them, and both had crappy neck-set angles, so the action was abysmal. The Custom Shop model is superior overall, but mostly because of the fact that in mid-2023 they FINALLY started sculpting the horns properly so they actually do look like the guitars they're supposed to be "reissues" of. The quality control on the Gibson CS is also really good, exponentially better than the milquetoast off-the-shelf USA models. To me, Gibson USA is like the Made in Mexico Fenders, with the Epiphone IBGC series being like the Squier Classic Vibe, or even the Indonesian Fenders. Not as pricey as the next level up, but arguably as good as, or in some cases, much better than them.

Owning a Gibson is not a badge of honor at this point. The only reason I own the Gibsons I do have is because there aren't copies ("Chinese" or otherwise) that are quite the same. My Gibson Custom Shop SG is a really close copy of my original '64-'65 transitional Standard I had to part with about 7 and a half years ago, and its value to me is more sentimental than anything. It was priced several times the cost of this Epiphone (or your made-in-USA model), and had they not corrected the tooling of the horns I wouldn't have bothered getting one (as my SG "Original" is pretty close itself), but it's marvelously done and I do like it. However, from a strictly practical standpoint, it isn't "several times the guitar" or even "twice the guitar" the Epiphone is. Today's Epiphones are not the vague knockoffs made with cheap hardware and even cheaper pickups/electronics from the 80's, 90's or even early 2000's. And if I can score two or three workhorse guitars for gigging at the same price some other guy spent on one mediocre USA Gibson? Yeah, I'm fine with that, my man.

Summing it up, I think being in the "bUt It'S nOt A uSA gIbSoN" club is as asinine as the guys who think your USA Gibson is a toy compared to their Custom Shop "real guitar". I mean, one of them could say that your USA SG Special doesn't have the right neck profile, or they'd note that the USA Specials put the bridge pickup in the wrong place, too close to the bridge, or it has the wrong tuners, blah-blah-blah. And referring to this trademarked, licensed facsimile by a subsidiary of the same company as some kind of knockoff or something just seems counterproductive. Life gets easier when we play and own guitars we like, and let others enjoy the same, instead of being passive-aggressive or demonstrating some kind of overcompensation for some personal insecurities we may have. A good guitar is a good guitar. Period.

 

[H-bomb]

Have both, except for headstock shape they are virtually the same except the Epi is 700 less.

I wish I only had to pay $700 more for the Custom Shop, but nah, unfortunately the Gibson CS models are almost double the price of the USA model. This Epi is about 1/4 the price of its Custom Shop big sister, but regarding the USA, yeah, it's still actually about $1000 less than the USA '61 w/Maestro (the closest USA model, with the Vibrola and such). This Epi also has Custombuckers, which are fantastic Custom Shop pickups, better than what comes in most of the regular USA models. To be honest, if one knows how to turn a screwdriver and has the patience to experiment with raising/lowering pickups/polepieces, the standard fare Epi "Probuckers" in the main line are great pickups too, I have a couple regular Epi Standards from 2021 and 2022 that I kept stock because those pickups are killer once dialed-in.

 

[H-bomb]

Couple questions:

My objection to a lot of the aged finishes isn't the shine level per se, but the fact that they don't fill the grain. No Gibson ever left the factory like that back in the day and no nitro finish soaked in that much. But that hasn't stopped Gibson and Epi from selling them like that.

Do these have the grain filled and just a slightly satin finish? Or are they open grain?

You mentioned that the neck is like the Epi '61 SG/LP. I know they're calling it Slim Taper, but is it more of a C or a D? One thing I don't get along with the the flat back D Epi has been using a lot lately. A shallow C is find with me, or a true Gibson style Slim Taper C 60's as long as it's not one of the husky ones.

What are your thoughts on neck shape and thickness?

Yeah, with the finishes, it's kind of like the other issues over the years, with incorrect body shapes/beveling/horn-tapers/etc, I think there have always been enough people just buying whatever they put on the shelves to not worry about fixing stuff until people start complaining more.

The Epiphone finish is grain-filled and smooth; honestly, much better looking and feeling, plus far more consistent than, for example Gibson's "worn" or "faded" finishes. This finish could be buffed a little and you could get a nice gloss on it. But as-is, it's still far shinier than the '61 SG/LP Standard's "aged sixties cherry", and as you can see in the pics next to the Custom Shop model it's based on, it looks almost "Nitro-y", and feels great to boot. Truth be told, it could arguably be seen as smoother and aesthetically nicer than some Gibson finishes I've seen.

The neck (a "Slim Taper" profile) on this one is completely different than the Gibson CS '64, which has a chunkier neck. It's not "bad different", just "different". All my SG's have slightly different necks (my 2011 50th Anniversary Epi Special has one of the widest-shouldered D-profile necks I've ever played), so I'm pretty adaptable and enjoy them all. This Epi '64 has almost the same neck as the '61 model from the same series, except the '61 has a little more of that "D profile as you get higher up the neck, whereas on the '64, it's got a little less of that "flat D shape", maybe even a little less than the regular standard off-the-shelf Epiphones, and doesn't go to that pronounced "D" profile, kind of in between the "C" and "D". Necks are definitely subjective, and different people have wildly different ideas on "what feels good". So I recommend putting one in your hand to make sure you can work with it. If so, you'll dig every other aspect of the guitar, from the finish to the sound...yeah, that sound. :)

 

[H-bomb]

I apologize for my ignorance, but I don't know what "IBGC" stands for. I'm guessing GC is "Gibson Custom", but I've been wrong before.

Sorry I got beat to it, but confirming "IBGC" = "Inspired By Gibson Custom"

 

[S.Ustain]

In the first pic of the two guitars, differences are completely obvious. The beveling is really different, the finishes are entirely different, the vibratos are utterly different... It's hard to take seriously those comments talking about how well the Epi recreates the Gibson. My own take on this Epi is that it is a really good example of Epis current efforts to produce their own top of the line guitars that are not meant to be clones or fake Gibsons, but are simply "inspired by" and then built to the highest standard that an international budget guitar maker can produce. Epi is owned by Gibson, so the notion that they would allow their Epi line to be seen, in thew overall market, as higher quality than their heavy-weight, flagship, historic name brand, Gibson, is not going to be fulfilled. It's pretty obvious that Epi is their "best for the buck" line, built to a price point, while Gibson is going to be "built to our highest standard of quality (not economy)". The truth is, that both branches have had terrible lapses over the years but have directly focused on rebuilding their standards, doing so to widely recognized success. It's obvious that Epiphone is seeking to recover from the incredible success of PRS' second line, the SE models and low has a product/price line that copies the SE range of offerings, and that Gibson will offer guitars competing with the PRS products. (It's interesting to note that Gibson cannot command the prices PRS commands these days and has been overtaken, for pure quality of build, by the newer company.) I think the top Epi models are simply terrific guitars, period. For the price. I don't believe that anyone seeing the two guitars displayed as in the OP, and being given the chance to walk away with one of them for free, would choose the Epi. But if you had to reach into your wallet, it's likely to be Epi time, and you would have yourself a great guitar.

 

[H-bomb]

In the first pic of the two guitars, differences are completely obvious. The beveling is really different, the finishes are entirely different, the vibratos are utterly different... It's hard to take seriously those comments talking about how well the Epi recreates the Gibson. My own take on this Epi is that it is a really good example of Epis current efforts to produce their own top of the line guitars that are not meant to be clones or fake Gibsons, but are simply "inspired by" and then built to the highest standard that an international budget guitar maker can produce. Epi is owned by Gibson, so the notion that they would allow their Epi line to be seen, in thew overall market, as higher quality than their heavy-weight, flagship, historic name brand, Gibson, is not going to be fulfilled. It's pretty obvious that Epi is their "best for the buck" line, built to a price point, while Gibson is going to be "built to our highest standard of quality (not economy)". The truth is, that both branches have had terrible lapses over the years but have directly focused on rebuilding their standards, doing so to widely recognized success. It's obvious that Epiphone is seeking to recover from the incredible success of PRS' second line, the SE models and low has a product/price line that copies the SE range of offerings, and that Gibson will offer guitars competing with the PRS products. (It's interesting to note that Gibson cannot command the prices PRS commands these days and has been overtaken, for pure quality of build, by the newer company.) I think the top Epi models are simply terrific guitars, period. For the price. I don't believe that anyone seeing the two guitars displayed as in the OP, and being given the chance to walk away with one of them for free, would choose the Epi. But if you had to reach into your wallet, it's likely to be Epi time, and you would have yourself a great guitar.

That is certainly...an opinion.

One thing to remember is that we don't necessarily go into buying an Epiphone expecting it to be a "perfect recreation" of the Gibson which inspired it. That would be absurd. The differences between the Gibson Custom Shop SG and the Epiphone '64 are comparable to the differences between the Gibson Custom Shop SG and the Gibson USA SG. And all of the above have slight variations even within their own respective models and production years. Even if you buy a USA Gibson, it's still going to have as many differences as the Epiphone. In most ways, the Epi '64 is closer to the Custom Shop '64 (and the originals) than an off-the-shelf USA "61 Standard", as I've seen firsthand by having all three in my possession. As you can see, the only ones that earned their keep are the Gibson Custom Shop and the Epi. The USA '61 SG and Junior are long gone, because they weren't "good enough".

As I've stated in other posts, unless one is buying a Custom Shop Gibson, one is rolling the dice on a Gibson USA guitar. Literally every one of the current offerings of USA (non-CS) Gibson I've played have had issues, so I've found there is nothing to that "Made in USA" stamp aside from a guarantee it's going to cost more. Maybe it's due to the Custom Shop having more skilled hands on their instruments during the construction process, but their quality control and consistency blows the USA division out of the water, and Gibson USA's "build standards" aren't anywhere close (some would say most import guitars' build standards are actually better and more consistent in many ways). If one wants a quality early-to-mid '60s style SG guitar, one is forced to pay between $4K and $6K for the "real thing" with the most historical accuracy (now that the Custom Shop is finally producing convincing "reissues")...or one can pay half that for a USA Gibson that's going to need all the same setup and adjustment as an inexpensive import to make playable that is "close" but still not as accurate a representation as the Custom Shop model...or one can pay a little over $1K for a guitar that might not be a "perfect replica" (no different from its USA cousin that also "isn't the same"), but it also doesn't break the bank, has much better pickups (Custombuckers) than the regular USA Gibson stuff, has the right style tuners, correct neck joint, and can more than do the job in the hands of any guitarist who knows what they're doing.

It is correct that both Gibson and Epiphone have had their high and low points throughout history. And while I personally have found the USA division's recent and current offerings to be "meh" at best, the Gibson Custom Shop and Epiphone have been knocking it out of the park. Hence why I own both of the latter and none of the former. They are both good guitars, but the USA division frankly just doesn't offer this model (or a model close enough to it for my tastes), so this isn't a "battle" between Epiphone and the USA division's products at all. Nor is it really any kind of battle between Epiphone and the Gibson Custom Shop, and never has been. Simply put, if someone REALLY wants the real thing bad enough, they'll save up for their Custom Shop guitar and they'll probably be happy with it. They're ridiculously expensive, but are exponentially better than a USA Gibson. But for the average working guitarist, I wholeheartedly suggest that they go try out one of the IBGC Epiphones against the closest model in the USA line and decide whether they want to spend a thousand and some change for a "reasonable facsimile" to the Gibson Custom Shop model or double that for an equally-flawed "copy". They'll see that aside from a slightly different neck shape and the "VOS poly" versus the nitro finish (which, again, is totally a matter of personal preference we all have different opinions of), the overall feel is similar enough, and arguably with the Custombucker pickups the Epiphone sounds closer to the Custom Shop SG than a USA would (not saying the USA sounds "bad", but it's not going to sound like the Custom Shop model because it doesn't come with the same pickups). And unlike previous Epiphone SG's, these '64 models are even closer to the Gibson's body thickness (about a millimeter's difference, whereas before they were much, much thicker). They've come a long way with these.

Which brings me to why it's disingenuous to poo-poo the Epiphone "Inspired By Gibson Custom" series as an apples-to-apples comparison to the Gibson Custom Shop. Nobody with an IQ above room-temp looks at an Epiphone as a direct competitor to the Custom Shop Gibson, and never will. Nobody buys an Epiphone priced at a quarter (or less) of the price of the Gibson Custom Shop model expecting it to be the exact same experience. Nobody needs it to be the same either. Nobody who appreciates Epiphones cares that the Vibrola and headstock have "Epiphone" on them instead of "Gibson". And while you're correct (as I'd originally stated) that the beveling/sculpting and especially the lack of a tapered upper horn (which even the Custom Shop was getting wrong up until 2 summers ago) are different than the Gibson Custom Shop SG, the same argument can apply to aspects of the USA models as well. Hence why I bought the Gibson Custom Shop, to get my "dream SG", and the Epiphones are my workhorses that are "close enough for rock-n-roll", with the IBGC models going the extra mile to be the "Classic Vibe" equivalent to the OG Gibsons (with current Gibson USA being the equivalent to Fender's MIM series, based on my experience). Ultimately, the ONLY way to get a "proper Gibson reissue" is through the Custom Shop, but those guitars are not something everyone can afford, or wants to spend their money on. Both the USA Gibsons AND the Epiphones are "inaccurate copies" in that regard, but for both brands, there are good ones, and there are bad ones. Epiphone will never be allowed to make exact replicas of any of the Gibsons they're licensed to copy, and that's okay. They're not horrendously overpriced either, and I personally have never felt let-down by them.

Even the standard Epi line (non-IBGC) these days are standup guitars, and not the "vague copies" of Gibsons they used to be, and I also employ them in my gigs without any issues or insecure hangups about what name is on the headstock. All my audience cares is if I'm rocking their socks, and I can do that with an Epiphone, Gibson, Fender, Squier, Gretsch (import---*GASP*) or Guild. They're all different, but the most important element remains: the player. And ultimately, as I have already stated in another reply, life is much easier when we enjoy what we like, and not make it a mission to piss on anyone else's picnic.

 

[DrBGood]