Gibson SG Fusion.

[Jack Hammer]

Good points from SG standard. The body and neck are cut from the same machines at the factory, but a lot of the labor cost of the standard and custom models is tied up in the mirror like finishes. Mahogany is porous and requires grain filler, followed by sanding, sealer, more sanding, primer, more sanding, paint, clearcoat, more sanding, and finally buffing and polishing. Just go the the Carvin website and look how much a premium finish adds to cost of your custom order guitar. The Fusion skips much of this procedure. The generic tuners and bridge are also outsourced as well as the fact that it only has two pots. As far as playability, it's essentially the same instrument.

You made another good point on whether to mod or not to mod. It's personal choice. I personally would never do a permanently altering mod on an American Fender, Gibson, or PRS. Anything else is fair game. As even the low end models become harder to come by over the years, why destroy the value?

 

[Bettyboo]

^ re modding: this is not a $699, $599, $499 or even a $399 guitar for me. I'd only buy one at $299 or less then I'd have no hesitation in modding it, putting stickers on or cutting bits out, burning it or anything else - these guitars are just little punky fun things to my eyes, they are not and never will be a 58' Les Paul.

So many terrible posts here regarding colour choice...

This is the one to go for!

At $249 it'd be a steal, and if the pups are decent as Biddlin says then it'd just be a matter of getting the action right for you either with the current bridge (unlikely, but possible and no more cost) or a new bridge which can be cheap enough (I usually start looking at $25 Gotoh stuff; likely more expensive in this case).

I hate the plain neck

Silly really, but fully agree; I had a HB 70s bass which played and sounded good (was really cheap), but the bloody horrible plain neck just put me off the thing. I actually bought some wood stain because the neck look irritated me so much, but never got around to the job.

(I'm not sure I could live with those tuners either, but $40 will get a nice replacement set.)

 

[Bettyboo]

Here's something funny, in an insane kinda way:

MSRP: $1,169.00
$699.00
Save: $470.00 (40%)

http://www.samash.com/s-series-sg-fusion-electric-guitar-gsgss17xx-p

 

[Scootermuppet]

I get all the points about the fusion...

But here in the U.K. They are around £450 - my SG Special (2015, 2nd hand but immaculate) cost me less than that, with its hard case...

I know it has some 'undesirable ' features to some people (G-force, les Paul sig and zero fret etc) but even if you swapped out the tuners and added a graph tech nut, surely you'd have a guitar with a higher spec and a better finish? - providing you like gloss finishes obviously....

It's a personal thing I guess, but I'm happy with my Special as-is. And If I ever sell, it will only be to help fund a Standard SG

 

[SG standard]

As even the low end models become harder to come by over the years, why destroy the value?

You're right - it is a personal choice. My own feeling has always been that it's fine to mod any instrument I own, as I own it for myself, not the next guy. But if it doesn't feel like a 'keeper' it's best to move it on, rather than mod it, and then buy a guitar that either feels like a keeper, or doesn't need modding!

As examples, I modded a guitar in about 1980 - and I still have it, and I'm even thinking of another mod when I get it refretted... I don't think I modded another guitar until 2014, when I bought a white SG with the intention of modding, by adding a Bigsby - they only way I could get the SG I always wanted. By contrast in 2014 I sold a very nice condition 80s MiJ Contempory Strat with a system III locking trem, which I'd owned since the late 80s (and it had never felt like a keeper!). Many Fender enthusiasts wouldn't know what that was if they saw it - they're pretty uncommon! Despite that, they're not sought after... I monitored E-bay sales for a year, (there were few) - I never saw another one that was complete, at least the trem arm was missing. And the trem arm is an important part of this beautifully engineered locking trem system. Was the rareness & originality any benefit when selling? No... it went to a guy who wanted a Strat that was 'a bit different' - and I think he already knew what pups he was going to put into it... It sold for £350 (it had cost £300, used, 30 year before). I don't think it's originality & completeness influenced the price - and I don't think it often does unless an instrument is both rare & in demand. It's that last bit that really makes a difference. Rare is not enough...

 

[PermissionToLand]

Neck to body angle causes pickups (covered or uncovered) to sit uneven with strings when the pickups are mounted directly to large guard without pickup mounting rings.

Pickup mounting rings are wedged-shaped, taller in back to offset the neck to body angle.

If you don't want to install mounting rings on large guard, place foam shims under pickups to level them or bend the pickup legs to offset the angle.

Watch the rig rundown for Angus.
The batwing SG's have pickup mounting rings installed in the bridge position only.

I prefer the Angus method.

If you choose to install mounting rings, keep in mind the ones for bridge are taller than the ones for neck.
You don't have to drill holes in the large guard to use mounting rings.
The tension from the spring on the pickup height adjustment screw is enough to keep the mounting ring tight against the guard.

Have you actually tried the Angus method? I don't think it would work. The spring is still pressed against the bottom of the pickguard, and thus will be flat. Also, unless you move the whole pickup forward, it will go straight through the original pickguard's screw hole, not at an angle.

Here's my simple solution: raise the polepieces.

 

[cerebral gasket]

Have you actually tried the Angus method? I don't think it would work. The spring is still pressed against the bottom of the pickguard, and thus will be flat. Also, unless you move the whole pickup forward, it will go straight through the original pickguard's screw hole, not at an angle.

You are correct.

We recently worked out the details with the screw holes and angle here.

http://www.everythingsg.com/threads/installing-pickup-rings-on-fullguards-etc.32686/#post-479002

I originally got the idea back in 1983 when I saw footage from the US Festival of Glenn Tipton's SG Special that had the P-90's replaced with HB's on large guard.

Recently I happen to see the rig rundown for Angus and saw that he only does the bridge position and thought that was a good idea.

Since then I have three Specials with the Angus method implemented.

 

[cerebral gasket]

You made another good point on whether to mod or not to mod. It's personal choice. I personally would never do a permanently altering mod on an American Fender, Gibson, or PRS. Anything else is fair game. As even the low end models become harder to come by over the years, why destroy the value?

I agree it is a personal choice to mod or not.
IMO, if a guitar cannot be modded to my specifications, then it is of no value to me.
I buy used and play low end models.

 

[bjunior]

Already posted in another thread. The fusion sounds really great.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Already posted in another thread. The fusion sounds really great.

Speaking as an owner of both, do your own comparison at a music store if your truly interested. Don't go by hear say. This guitar has taken a few unfair below the belt shots on this thread. Having said that, I'm certain it will take a few more.

 

[PermissionToLand]

IDK why people feel the need to sh*t on guitars that are not their taste. I find PRSs tacky but I don't talk down about them (and frankly, they are nice playing and sounding guitars otherwise). I could dig the Fusion as a sort of Strat meets SG deal.

In fact, I dig the Wine Red. I wish Gibson would offer the Standard in that finish, so we can at least have a reasonable facsimile of a '69 SG...

 

[Raiyn]

As even the low end models become harder to come by over the years, why destroy the value?

Seriously?

1. The production numbers for recent Gibsons are higher than they ever were in the classic era - There's a TON of them.
2. There are plenty of corksniffers who'll preserve these things in amber meaning values won't rise much beyond inflation because they won't be rare.

Look at all the "investors" who bought a crapload of Beanie Babies thinking they could retire on the profits. For f'sakes someone sold protectors for the stupid tags!

I get all the points about the fusion...

But here in the U.K. They are around £450 - my SG Special (2015, 2nd hand but immaculate) cost me less than that, with its hard case...

I know it has some 'undesirable ' features to some people (G-force, les Paul sig and zero fret etc) but even if you swapped out the tuners and added a graph tech nut, surely you'd have a guitar with a higher spec and a better finish? - providing you like gloss finishes obviously....

It's a personal thing I guess, but I'm happy with my Special as-is. And If I ever sell, it will only be to help fund a Standard SG

There you go.

Buy a guitar because you love it or intend to make it into something you'll love; not because you think you can make money on it in a few years if you keep it 100% original.

 

[Bettyboo]

Speaking as an owner of both, do your own comparison at a music store if your truly interested. Don't go by hear say. This guitar has taken a few unfair below the belt shots on this thread. Having said that, I'm certain it will take a few more.

Your feedback is valuable because you have real experience.

The main point I'd make is you can often buy an SG faded for around $600 new; and an SG faded is just an SG standard without the fancy bits like nitro, binding and PU covers. Thus, with the fusion at almost the same price, it's a tough sell at the price, imho. At the right price, I could certainly see myself buying one of these SG fusions.

 

[dub-setter]

maybe buying one used.....

 

[Scootermuppet]

Or as has been pointed out (I think) wait to see if they are slow sellers, and bag one when the shops shift them on at a discount

On the Standard vs faded debate, I would like a standard eventually, and hadn't really considered a faded - looks like I might have to change my viewpoint

Not sure if one would be a logical next step up from my 2015 Special though?

Guess I'll have to try playing one and see how it compares...

 

[Bettyboo]

On the Standard vs faded debate, I would like a standard eventually, and hadn't really considered a faded

Some specials are very very close to the SG standard, for example, look at the specs on these two 2016s; okay the neck is maple on one, but otherwise, we're talking binding, finish and not much else (if you swap P90s into it, and don't worry about pretty headstock inlays) - these are almost all sold out in Korea at around $650, a very good price, imho, if you are after a player.

http://www.guitarmall.net/product/product_detail.asp?product_num=108437&code1=11&code2=&code3=&SSO=Y

http://www.guitarmall.net/product/product_detail.asp?product_num=109958

Body wood, shape, tuners, nut, neck, body routing, electronics, hardware, knobs, etc are all the same. You can buy a 2016 batwing pickguard, drop in some P90s and your special is pretty much there...

I reckon the maple neck would make her a tad brighter, but that'd be a tonewood discussion and we wouldn't wanna go there...

 

[dan_vacant]

You mean the Arctic Ice? That's the color I played. Pretty bold, but it might fade a little with time, lol, but I like it much more than Pelham Blue, tbh.

no this one. and I love pelham blue

 

[jtees4]

Your feedback is valuable because you have real experience.

The main point I'd make is you can often buy an SG faded for around $600 new; and an SG faded is just an SG standard without the fancy bits like nitro, binding and PU covers. Thus, with the fusion at almost the same price, it's a tough sell at the price, imho. At the right price, I could certainly see myself buying one of these SG fusions.

Totally agree, I have had a few fadeds and they can be GREAT guitars. I usually just add chrome covers myself because I like the look. I also usually buy them used, last one I bought was $400 with gig bag. Granted, if I saw one of these new fangled sg's for $200 used in good shape, I'd probably grab it.....because frankly, I have been setting up guitars for over 40 years and I have not met one that I couldn't make play at leasr decently, if not great. And a pickup change is simple enough. In fact I have a 498T sitting here waiting for a home....

 

[reingarnichts]

Totally agree, I have had a few fadeds and they can be GREAT guitars. I usually just add chrome covers myself because I like the look. I also usually buy them used, last one I bought was $400 with gig bag. Granted, if I saw one of these new fangled sg's for $200 used in good shape, I'd probably grab it.....because frankly, I have been setting up guitars for over 40 years and I have not met one that I couldn't make play at leasr decently, if not great. And a pickup change is simple enough. In fact I have a 498T sitting here waiting for a home....

Totally agree,too. My main guitar is a faded special. Really nice instruments and you get those for ~400,- used.

But then again: Those Fusions just look so adorably cheap

 

[Lynurd Fireburd]

Thanks for answering so many questions & reviewing the Fusion.

I was tempted by a Fusion but am hesitant after hoisting a Firebird Zero. Those things are gawdawful. I thought the build specs/quality might be the same between the two.

My idea was to mount a Vibrola on a Fusion, but it appears the neck angle is non existent. I wouldn't get the proper string break over the bridge. I think that was a complaint on the Zero's. Buyers couldn't get the bridge low enough. The lack of stopbar on the Fusion is what got me thinking

Think about it. The taper of the Vibrola would run right along that PG edge. It could look really good.

From Gibson's site.

Neck Fit
Joint Angle: 1.1 degrees
Joint Angle Tolerance: 0 deg 0 min 15 sec
Type: Mortis and Tenon