SD Custom and BKP Rebel Yell compared

[Heket]

Here is a clip covering my pickup swap comparing the Seymour Duncan Custom (aka SH-5 - ceramic, high output, "PAF on steroids") and the Bare Knuckle Pickups Rebel Yell (Alnico 5, medium output, rock-voiced). The guitar used is, of course, my SG Special faded. Each riff you are hearing the SH-5 first, then the RY.


The amp used is a Hayden Lil Mofo (2W tube amp) through a VOX Lil Night Train cabinet (10" speaker) recorded using Audacity through a Focusrite Scarlett 212 USB interface and a Sennheiser mic which I forgotten which model it is. I think it's their version of an SM58. Between the two recordings I kept the knobs on the amp exactly the same, which really shows the higher output of the SH-5. This makes the BKP sound a bit weak in comparison, but trust me, it's not! This clip gives a general idea of the type of tone, but does not demonstrate its clarity, responsiveness and tightness as well as it could. Still, it's something :)


https://soundcloud.com/anitaranig/guitar-pickups-sh-5-and-rebel

<iframe width="100%" height="166" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/119223588"></iframe>
(I can't get this embed code to work, can anyone help me?)


I had quite a few "everything's going wrong, don't give a toss" moments when recording all my samples, which is why you're only hearing half of them even here you can feel my impatience in my complete lack of timing in the last riff, hehe. This clip isn't to show my skills, it's to show the tone. Maybe another day I'll re-record the 'crunch' and 'metal' sounds I tried too.

Apologies for all those users who can't use Soundcloud. I don't know if there's another way to get sound easier, as I'm guessing if you can't get Soundcloud to work, you won't have much joy with Youtube either.

 

[Gemini75]

Good to hear you're able to record now.

And yes, the difference between the output of the two pups is quite pronounced.

My only experience with BKP has been with their ceramic Warpig, which, tbh, I wasn't all that impressed by. Was never a big fan of SD pups, but in this particular instance, I think the SD wins hands down.

BKP and SD aside, have you thought of giving the DiMarzio Super Distortion a try?

 

[dbb]

Sounds good!

The playing was very crisp and clean (well, not the lovely distortion tone per se), too!

 

[Heket]

My only experience with BKP has been with their ceramic Warpig, which, tbh, I wasn't all that impressed by. Was never a big fan of SD pups, but in this particular instance, I think the SD wins hands down.

BKP and SD aside, have you thought of giving the DiMarzio Super Distortion a try?

I haven't tried the Super Distortion, and right now I'm so incredibly happy with my Rebel Yell. I'm a bit frustrated that these recorded clips don't showcase the Rebel Yell as I hear it. Adding it into the signal chain has made all my gear sound at least 2 steps better than before.

The fullness you hear in the clip of the SH-5 translates to boominess in real life. With the Hayden especially, I sometimes found myself turning the bass off and the treble almost to max, which then thins the tone. Even with my Lil Night Train, which any owners here would tell you is about as bright as it gets, I found myself reaching for the treble. That boominess and maybe the extra hotness made it sound a little mushy and sometimes a bit flubby in my ears.

That's not so much a criticism of the pickup, I like it and will probably use it elsewhere, but perhaps in a guitar with a bit of maple or other bright tonewood. It's a great pickup, but I don't believe it was the best match for my SG. I'm also very keen on honky, hard rock tones with emphasis on high-mids and treble, perhaps your ear is more interested in a deeper, more scooped tone? Plus it has more gain, and everything sounds better with a bit of gain

I'm going to fiddle around with amps settings today too and mic placement too. It perhaps wasn't fair that I kept the settings that made the SH-5 sound good to record the samples for the RY too, but I did want to keep other variables down as much as possible to compare objectively. I'm still experimenting with pickup height too. Resistance of the RY was tested at 13.9k and the SH-5 should be around 14.1k so I guess there's more at work with the output than just the resistance.

Sounds good!

The playing was very crisp and clean (well, not the lovely distortion tone per se), too!

Thanks! I was very pleased with the tone of the distortion. Maybe I'll include the clip I did with the Lil Night Train too for even more comparisons, hehe.

 

[Gemini75]

I haven't tried the Super Distortion, and right now I'm so incredibly happy with my Rebel Yell. I'm a bit frustrated that these recorded clips don't showcase the Rebel Yell as I hear it. Adding it into the signal chain has made all my gear sound at least 2 steps better than before.

It might be that you really need to crank the amp to get the most out of the BKP. It's a medium output pup, so you're either going to have crank the od pedal or your amp to get the "crunch" out of the BKP.

The fullness you hear in the clip of the SH-5 translates to boominess in real life. With the Hayden especially, I sometimes found myself turning the bass off and the treble almost to max, which then thins the tone. Even with my Lil Night Train, which any owners here would tell you is about as bright as it gets, I found myself reaching for the treble. That boominess and maybe the extra hotness made it sound a little mushy and sometimes a bit flubby in my ears.

And welcome to insanely frustrating world of home recording! :) You are, unfortunately, going to be spending untold hours twisting knobs and adjusting things. What I would suggest you do, if you haven't already done so, is to get yourself a pair of headphoes with the flattest response you can find.

That's not so much a criticism of the pickup, I like it and will probably use it elsewhere, but perhaps in a guitar with a bit of maple or other bright tonewood. It's a great pickup, but I don't believe it was the best match for my SG. I'm also very keen on honky, hard rock tones with emphasis on high-mids and treble, perhaps your ear is more interested in a deeper, more scooped tone? Plus it has more gain, and everything sounds better with a bit of gain

Honky mids are around the 500-1,000 range, so try boosting slightly around there.

I'm going to fiddle around with amps settings today too and mic placement too. It perhaps wasn't fair that I kept the settings that made the SH-5 sound good to record the samples for the RY too, but I did want to keep other variables down as much as possible to compare objectively. I'm still experimenting with pickup height too. Resistance of the RY was tested at 13.9k and the SH-5 should be around 14.1k so I guess there's more at work with the output than just the resistance.

You might want to get an SM57 sometime too. I'd also suggest getting a 10 band EQ pedal as well.[

Also, try using two mics simultaneously, one facing the cone and another off at a 45 degree angle to that.

Another thing you should be doing is playing and mixing with a bass and drum track. It's very easy to get a great sounding guitar tone by itself only to have it disappear in a mix.

 

[dbb]

Also, try using two mics simultaneously, one facing the cone and another off at a 45 degree angle to that.

Another thing you should be doing is playing and mixing with a bass and drum track. It's very easy to get a great sounding guitar tone by itself only to have it disappear in a mix.

What tone sounds good in a mix may well not be exactly the one you'd choose alone, as the tone has to fit in with the rest of the track, and sometimes that will require use of the EQ - of course I'm using one or more of several plug-ins for EQ in Pro Tools - that will allow you to boost of cut specific frequencies.

Example- if your bass and drum tracks has a resonant peak at 400K the guitar should not have the same peak so it will sit better in the mix. That sort of thing.

As for two mics, there are numerous ways of using 2 mics on a guitar amp, on and off axis as you say, but also one close, one several feet away, or one in front and another with phase reversed from the back of the speaker cab, a mic plus a line out signal, etc.

 

[Heket]

Gemini, I have a set of active monitors for listening to the recordings, so I'm good there :) Yes, I can see myself fiddling around with knobs and tweaks. I wouldn't say it takes the fun out of things because it's a different type of fun, but when you just want to play, you just want to play!

I have to use a pedal to get the same overdrive as I did before in my Lil Mofo amp, but that's Ok, it takes pedals very well. Now it's limit is hard rock, whereas before it went all the way into heavy metal. I miss the extra output a bit, but I traded output for clarity, and clarity isn't as easy to add afterwards.

David, I'll try and remember that about the two mics, but apart from these tests I'm still trying to take it a bit easy with the guitar and won't be buying new recording gear for a while. Says she, who spent 1.5 hours playing today. Darn this new pickup

For completeness I wanted to add the same clips but recorded with my Lil Night Train instead. As I'm always banging on about how much I like it, you can finally see what sort of tones I like. Mind your ears don't bleed


https://soundcloud.com/anitaranig/sh-5-and-ry-compared-lnt


A very high-focussed rock sound. I wish I could get this sound with just that little bit of extra gain to take it into metal, but I don't know how My LNT HATES overdrive pedals.

 

[Gemini75]

I like the tone from the BKP better on this clip.

About the monitors, do they have a flat response? If not you'll be coloring your tone without knowing it.

What cab are you using?

 

[Heket]

I like the tone from the BKP better on this clip.

About the monitors, do they have a flat response? If not you'll be coloring your tone without knowing it.

What cab are you using?

I'm not sure of the flatness, I asked the guy in the music store who is keen on home recording that I wanted as flat a response as possible in my budget, which I think I said to him was about £200. They are Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 active monitors.

The cab is the Lil Night Train cab, which is 10" with a Celestion VX10 speaker, which is made for the Lil cabinet. It's also my only cabinet, so no choice there

 

[Gemini75]

So long as you're getting a flat response that's all that matters.

Since you got your core tone, most of the other stuff you'll need to do now are just the small scale adjustments. Since you're using Audacity you'll be able to run a VST EQ plug-in as well. This will really open new sonic horizons for you.

Speaking of which, you can take your recorded guitar tracks now and add cab sims to them as well.