SG's are neck heavy? No, other guitars are bottom heavy.

[Les’s Nemisis]

Welp, after playing mostly SG's for a few years now... my point-of-view has changed.

I went to GS today since I was passing by and stopping in to play a dozen guitars really seemed like the right thing to do. Every guitar I played, with the exception of a couple SG's, felt bottom heavy. A couple PRS S2 Custom 24's, a 335, a couple Gretch double cut semi-hollows, a couple D'Angelico Premier Bedfords, an LP, etc... their butts all wanted to drop-right and the necks fly up and take off like an F16 jet at an airshow.

I have a Norlin LP, made with a uranium core I believe, that has serious butt drop. I've played it irregularly over the last few years. I notice the "butt drop" characteristic with that when I play it. But, hey, Norlin LP. It's expected, right?

But today I realized that out of all these guitars, only the SG's sat comfortably on my knee in a good playing position with no tendency to butt drop. No need to spend time controlling it instead of playing it.

I think people have been looking at this all backwards. It's not "neck dive" that the issue: it's being used to butt drop. SG's are clearly the only correct design for electric guitars.

 

[DrBGood]

Welp, after playing mostly SG's for a few years now... my point-of-view has changed.

I went to GS today since I was passing by and stopping in to play a dozen guitars really seemed like the right thing to do. Every guitar I played, with the exception of a couple SG's, felt bottom heavy. A couple PRS S2 Custom 24's, a 335, a couple Gretch double cut semi-hollows, a couple D'Angelico Premier Bedfords, an LP, etc... their butts all wanted to drop-right and the necks fly up and take off like an F16 jet at an airshow.

I have a Norlin LP, made with a uranium core I believe, that has serious butt drop. I've played it irregularly over the last few years. I noticed the "butt drop" characteristic with that when I play it. But, hey, Norlin LP. It's expected, right?

But today I realized that out of all these guitars, only the SG's sat comfortably on my knee in a good playing position with no tendency to butt drop. No need to spend time controlling it instead of playing it.

I think people have been looking at this all backwards. It's not "neck dive" that the issue: it's being used to butt drop. SG's are clearly the only correct design for electric guitars.

Makes sense.
All my guitars are very light, so not a problem on either end.

 

[PermissionToLand]

The original SG design had a vibrola which added weight at the body end. It was only when they decided to switch to a stopbar that the original balance was thrown off.

 

[NiteGoat]

My SG is not neck heavy at all. It also weighs around 10lbs.

 

[DrBGood]

My SG is not neck heavy at all. It also weighs around 10lbs.

A 10 Lbs SG ? You're sure it's not a Les Paul ? I let go of an 8 pounder because I found it too heavy.

 

[miked847]

The strap can make all the difference. I use a strap with a suede finish to the shirt. Grips the fabric of your shirt and gives just that little bit of stability.

 

[Goldy'sSGs]

The original SG design had a vibrola which added weight at the body end. It was only when they decided to switch to a stopbar that the original balance was thrown off.

Uh, I thought the first years 61-63 “sg” was called The LesPaul and had a single p-90 and a wrap tailpiece?

 

[PermissionToLand]

Uh, I thought the first years 61-63 “sg” was called The LesPaul and had a single p-90 and a wrap tailpiece?

I'm talking about the design known as the SG today, come on.

 

[Derrick]

Welp, after playing mostly SG's for a few years now... my point-of-view has changed.

I went to GS today since I was passing by and stopping in to play a dozen guitars really seemed like the right thing to do. Every guitar I played, with the exception of a couple SG's, felt bottom heavy. A couple PRS S2 Custom 24's, a 335, a couple Gretch double cut semi-hollows, a couple D'Angelico Premier Bedfords, an LP, etc... their butts all wanted to drop-right and the necks fly up and take off like an F16 jet at an airshow.

I have a Norlin LP, made with a uranium core I believe, that has serious butt drop. I've played it irregularly over the last few years. I notice the "butt drop" characteristic with that when I play it. But, hey, Norlin LP. It's expected, right?

But today I realized that out of all these guitars, only the SG's sat comfortably on my knee in a good playing position with no tendency to butt drop. No need to spend time controlling it instead of playing it.

I think people have been looking at this all backwards. It's not "neck dive" that the issue: it's being used to butt drop. SG's are clearly the only correct design for electric guitars.

Man, favoring neck dive while describing the guitar body's logical center of gravity as bottom heavy instead is a new thing to whine about instead of just playing the thing. People can twist things around and call them whatever they want... but by your own logic, if neck-dive is the cause of the neck to dive towards the ground if not held, then it would stand to reason that "butt-drop" would be a cause of the body to dive towards the ground if not held. It doesn't however, because most guitars are designed logically with strap connection placements in mind which holds them level even when not held by the operator... some SGs models being the most notable exception - fact of life,

 

[H-bomb]

An SG with a proper vibrola/vibrato tailpiece (as it was intended to have) will not have this purported "neck dive" some people seem to be hung-up about, as it counterbalances the fact that SG's were designed with the fretboard being totally accessible on the end of the body instead of being inset like the majority of guitars (which have varying degrees of impedance to upper-fret access). Even in the case of the early Juniors and Specials (which were available in both short vibrola and wraparound-only configurations) tended to also not really have "neck dive" because of the lightweight (more "budget" level) tuning keys used and the fact that P-90's have more copper and bigger magnets than a PAF-style humbucker, so that balanced the body better. I had a luthier tell me once that also we can't forget that the wood used in those Golden Age guitars was dried (seasoned, etc) differently than woods today, so even a reasonably accurate replica made today will not balance or resonate quite the same. That being said, people's mileage may vary depending on what kind of strap they use, what their physique is, and how a guitar is "released" from one's hands as to how much, if at all, it will "neck dive".

I don't really ever experience it, because I've yet to be brave enough to take on this legendary "picking/strumming hand only" guitar playing technique (?) that people must be trying to implement where one's fretting hand would be out of the equation entirely to experience a drooping unsupported neck, nor do I play in a manner where my picking/strumming arm isn't at least partially (naturally) resting on the upper bout of the guitar (which acts as a counterbalance aid in and of itself) so to me it's a non-issue.

My friend sent me this meme that I thought was funny when I saw it posted on a social media thread about this issue.

 

[Brooklyn Zeke]

I have a vintage (c. 1968) SG Standard, dark walnut gloss. I have never encountered neck dive, regardless of strap type, and despite my having made the headstock heavier by replacing the original Gibson Deluxe keystone (tulip) tuners with Sperzel locking tuners, and a String Butler, to it.

 

[jfine]

Uh, I thought the first years 61-63 “sg” was called The LesPaul and had a single p-90 and a wrap tailpiece?

You’re correct that in the first few years of SG production they were called Les Pauls, but the single-pickup wraptail version was just one model, called the SG (or Les Paul) Junior. The first SGs to come out were Standard models; Customs and Juniors came along a bit later. The slab-bodied double-cutaway Specials were called SGs from the introduction of the double cutaway in 1958.

 

[Hodgo]

For a guitar you solely play standing, the center of gravity should be ideally where the upper strap button is or slightly behind it, towards the heel. A little further back towards the waistline if you play it sitting too.

Some SGs balance beautifully, some are neck heavy, some are tail heavy. SGs are certainly more prone to neck dive than say, a Les Paul or Fender because of how thin the body is, but I’ve seen far worse dive on basses and baritone guitars that were still plenty playable.

Also, factory stoptails were not a thing until well into the Norlin era aside from the aforementioned Specials with wraptails.

 

[Stewbear]

Welp, after playing mostly SG's for a few years now... my point-of-view has changed.

I went to GS today since I was passing by and stopping in to play a dozen guitars really seemed like the right thing to do. Every guitar I played, with the exception of a couple SG's, felt bottom heavy. A couple PRS S2 Custom 24's, a 335, a couple Gretch double cut semi-hollows, a couple D'Angelico Premier Bedfords, an LP, etc... their butts all wanted to drop-right and the necks fly up and take off like an F16 jet at an airshow.

I have a Norlin LP, made with a uranium core I believe, that has serious butt drop. I've played it irregularly over the last few years. I notice the "butt drop" characteristic with that when I play it. But, hey, Norlin LP. It's expected, right?

But today I realized that out of all these guitars, only the SG's sat comfortably on my knee in a good playing position with no tendency to butt drop. No need to spend time controlling it instead of playing it.

I think people have been looking at this all backwards. It's not "neck dive" that the issue: it's being used to butt drop. SG's are clearly the only correct design for electric guitars.

I have three I have bad luck with all of them pick ups keep going out even on one when it was brand new

 

[jtees4]

Generally speaking, mileage can vary....BUT and SG weighing a little over 7 pounds usually eliminates neck dive. Having said that, I have had SG's like 6.5 pounds that balance perfectly, and some that were neck heavy. So every guitar is different. Get near eight pounds and I've never seen neck dive, many modern SG's can weigh that much.

 

[Hodgo]

Generally speaking, mileage can vary....BUT and SG weighing a little over 7 pounds usually eliminates neck dive. Having said that, I have had SG's like 6.5 pounds that balance perfectly, and some that were neck heavy. So every guitar is different. Get near eight pounds and I've never seen neck dive, many modern SG's can weigh that much.

Considering that the body and neck are made from different stock, it could easily be the case that the neck is made from mahogany at the high end of the weight range (3.5+lbf) while the body is made from stock nearly a pound per board foot lighter.

Then there’s the leverage effect of it balancing on the strap pins and how little weight changes in the tuners can have bigger impact on balance than we might initially think…

The only way around it is trying before buying or working with a luthier who will sort through a stack to find the right pieces.

 

[S.Ustain]

No, neck dive is often the issue. A balanced SG is indeed wonderful and way better, IMO, than some of the larda$$ bottom heavy guitars out there -- I'm talking to you, Les Pauls -- but a head heavy SG may be the most obnoxiously intrusive guitar out there. Pictured below is my excellent 1987 Reissue '61 LP/SG Custom. It is beautifully made and the details are as cleanly done as any other great guitar. But it was incredibly head-heavy, despite having 3 pickups, and always pulled towards the floor from the head. To get it balanced, I had to switch out the beautiful old Grover rotomatics for extremely lightweight Hipshot open tuners, onto which I could swap plastic (=light) buttons that looked Gibson-esque. I also had to relocate both strap buttons, moving the tail button to the back of the guitar, several inches in (yes, it works) and moving the absolutely idiotic heel button to upper horn -- a tricky installation that is easy to botch. There are plenty of SGs with this problem, though most do not have it to this extent. A lot of players use straps with rough, non-slip undersides, which is often not enough and does not relieve the feeling of poor balance. The good thing about SGs is that they are light, so for some all that's needed is a load of lead shot in a non-conductive bag in the control cavity. Sure, those other guitars are body heavy, but the SG does not get a free pass as being balanced. Some are, and I think all can be made to be, but I don't think Gibson bothers to check for this -- if they're not doing it on expensive models like mine, they sure aren't doing it on the more mass produced SGs.

 

[alexander paul]

An SG with a proper vibrola/vibrato tailpiece (as it was intended to have) will not have this purported "neck dive" some people seem to be hung-up about, as it counterbalances the fact that SG's were designed with the fretboard being totally accessible on the end of the body instead of being inset like the majority of guitars (which have varying degrees of impedance to upper-fret access). Even in the case of the early Juniors and Specials (which were available in both short vibrola and wraparound-only configurations) tended to also not really have "neck dive" because of the lightweight (more "budget" level) tuning keys used and the fact that P-90's have more copper and bigger magnets than a PAF-style humbucker, so that balanced the body better. I had a luthier tell me once that also we can't forget that the wood used in those Golden Age guitars was dried (seasoned, etc) differently than woods today, so even a reasonably accurate replica made today will not balance or resonate quite the same. That being said, people's mileage may vary depending on what kind of strap they use, what their physique is, and how a guitar is "released" from one's hands as to how much, if at all, it will "neck dive".

I don't really ever experience it, because I've yet to be brave enough to take on this legendary "picking/strumming hand only" guitar playing technique (?) that people must be trying to implement where one's fretting hand would be out of the equation entirely to experience a drooping unsupported neck, nor do I play in a manner where my picking/strumming arm isn't at least partially (naturally) resting on the upper bout of the guitar (which acts as a counterbalance aid in and of itself) so to me it's a non-issue.

My friend sent me this meme that I thought was funny when I saw it posted on a social media thread about this issue.

i never let go of the neck because i would of been holding splinters years ago if i did...

 

[H-bomb]

i never let go of the neck because i would of been holding splinters years ago if i did...

I mean, I MIGHT have done the "Bono" pose once or twice when singing (you know, guitar down by my right side, purposely swung out of the way--only because I could trust my strap-locks, of course), but otherwise, I'm "playing the guitar", which requires two hands last I checked. Except if I'm doing an Angus tribute pull-off/hammer-on thing with my right hand raised triumphantly in the air.

Otherwise, I'd LOVE to see some videos of the "strumming hand only" playing technique that must be a bane to folks who lose sleep at night over their SG not hanging level when their fretting hand is mysteriously preoccupied/absent.

Ultimately, one thing I like to remind people is that acoustic guitars are "neck dive-y", but people don't seem to lose their minds over that fact which predates the electric guitar by what, a couple centuries at least? Getting wound-up and bent out of shape obsessing about a guitar not hanging perfectly level when you're posing with it hands-free seems like a made-up concern worthy of a South Park episode.

 

[Tony65x55]

Tulip tuners, folks. My SGs balance perfectly with tulip tuners. I had one that was a neck-diving demon, and I fixed it with a simple change from Grovers to tulips.