Treble Bridge Height Decked

[Sex God]

I'm looking at buying a new '61 Standard and don't have the opportunity to try before I buy. I've requested some pictures of one which include the bridge height from the body. This one looks to be set as low as it will go on the treble side. The action seems to be set pretty low, although I'm not sure it is tuned to concert pitch and I can't see the action on the treble side. Would the lack of string lowering adjustability prove to be problematic in time to come or could I expect the guitar to remain pretty stable throughout its lifetime, or mine, whichever comes first? I doubt very much I would ever want the action any lower, on the bass side anyway.

 

[Norton]

there are almost always ways to deal with that IF it was a problem. (doubtful).

saddles can be deepened and re-shaped, the bottom of the bridge can be sanded down... the threaded inserts can be mounted deeper into the body etc.

 

[Col Mustard]

Welcome to ETSG

Gibson guitars have many ways to change the setup.
Bridge height can be adjusted, neck relief can be adjusted,
bridge saddles can be worked on or replaced...
These are things you must be prepared to do when you buy a Gibson guitar
or equally when you buy a Fender or any other electric.
Professional luthiers make their living setting guitars up for players
who have specific needs.

I highly recommend that you NOT allow yourself to say
"I don't have the opportunity to play it before I buy it."
IMHO you should make the opportunity to play it before you buy it.
Especially if you are picky. The more picky you are about how your
guitar plays, the more important it is to play it first, before you buy it.

We see so many posts here by guys who bought a very expensive guitar
unseen and unplayed and then come aboard this forum crying and moaning
about things they should have spotted if they had played it first.
Don't fall into that trap.

Besides... the hunt is fun IMHO. Make it a quest. Take your lady along and
buy her something she likes too. Go where they sell them, and play as many
as they'll let you. Buy the one that comes alive in your hands, no matter what
"year class" or "model" or color it is. Buy the one that feels and sounds the
best.

Don't listen to advice from people (like me) who know nothing about
your music. Play a wide variety of new and used guitars, and let the
instrument choose you.

 

[Col Mustard]

Oh and the guitar in the picture needs the attention
of a knowledgeable Gibson player
or a professional luthier before it can be playable.
The strings are touching one of the pickups.
That's really no big worry. Guitars change by themselves
and need to be set up periodically.
The SG has all these little screws to adjust things with
and that one in the pictures will need some adjustment.

If you bought that one because you got a great price on it
you should be prepared to get it set up properly before
your next performance.

If you are prepared to take your new Gibson to a luthier right
away and get it set up, then you can buy one blindfolded
and let the luthier put it right. I recommend you do that anyway.
I always do, when I get a new or used guitar. I can set it up
myself, but I like a pro luthier to check my work. (and to check
everything else). Then I just play it.

 

[Go Nigel Go]

Totally agree with the above advice. Play it before you but if at all possible, but if that simply is not possible plan on solving any issues you find yourself or with professional help if the solution is beyond your skill set. What I see in the photos looks like a guitar that I could set up myself on the kitchen table with my admittedly limited knowledge, skills, and tools. I am basically a player with some basic tech level skills that include doing my own setups.

My experience with Gibson is that they are extremely stable once set up, so I don't expect to have to fiddle around with adjustments much at all over many decades. As long as you can get it where you want it at the beginning, it won't matter that something is at the limit of it's threads. I also agree that bridge pickup looks will need to be lowered a bit, but you will be doing that as the final step in the setup anyway to find where it has the sound and output you want, not an "issue" at all.

 

[Sex God]

When I say I don't have the opportunity to play before I buy, I mean I don't have the opportunity to play before I buy. I live in a remote area of Tasmania, the closest and only '61 Standard in the state is a 600km return drive. If you aren't aware, Tasmania is an island state off the south of mainland Australia separated by 250km of water since the last ice age.
I have been setting up my own guitars for over 30 years and playing them for over 40. However I've not had any experience with Gibson guitars apart from having to send a '50s Standard LP back last year because of a lump in the neck profile behind the 2nd and 3rd frets.
I did take the time to write a lengthy self introduction on the forum at the Welcome Wagon but it got deleted for what reason I can't imagine why.
The strings aren't touching the pickups of this guitar. I think the picture may be deceiving, that would be an easy fix regardless and not a concern. It's something I would adjust anyway.
I'm not prepared to purchase a guitar with a set neck that I need to modify the bridge or its body mounts so I can adjust the string height, particularly one at this price point. So it looks like my decades long desire to own a Gibson SG won't be realised any time soon....

S.G.

 

[Decadent Dan]

Ask them to set it up and take better photos. The bass side will obviously go lower. You said you can’t see action on treble side so YOU CAN’T SEE It.
I wouldn’t throw it out the window yet.

 

[Sex God]

Ask them to set it up and take better photos. The bass side will obviously go lower. You said you can’t see action on treble side so YOU CAN’T SEE It.
I wouldn’t throw it out the window yet.

True. I've conveyed my concerns to the retailer on the maxed bridge but they are suggesting there is only so much they can do through pictures and email and if I need to know more I'd have to inspect it in person. It's certainly not going to be a warranty issue, Gibson warranty here isn't worth a POS anyway. Gibson Australia are terrible to deal with going on my experience on the '50's LP Standard I sent back to the retailer. They claimed I had voided warranty because I'd tried to tighten a strap pin that was already stripped and refused to acknowledge the defect in the neck profile. Luckily that retailer had a good return policy in the end. Unfortunately they don't have a '61 in stock. My best shot is probably to find a retailer with a good return policy that has one in stock. One joker wants a 30% deposit to get one into the shop and send pictures, even though they are advertising they have one in stock on their website. Get this, he reckons they generally don't open these units as people prefer to buy them sealed from the factory! Fair dinkum. He's not the only joker I've had car salesman level responses from either. The quest will continue.

 

[Decadent Dan]

True. I've conveyed my concerns to the retailer on the maxed bridge but they are suggesting there is only so much they can do through pictures and email and if I need to know more I'd have to inspect it in person. It's certainly not going to be a warranty issue, Gibson warranty here isn't worth a POS anyway. Gibson Australia are terrible to deal with going on my experience on the '50's LP Standard I sent back to the retailer. They claimed I had voided warranty because I'd tried to tighten a strap pin that was already stripped and refused to acknowledge the defect in the neck profile. Luckily that retailer had a good return policy in the end. Unfortunately they don't have a '61 in stock. My best shot is probably to find a retailer with a good return policy that has one in stock. One joker wants a 30% deposit to get one into the shop and send pictures, even though they are advertising they have one in stock on their website. Get this, he reckons they generally don't open these units as people prefer to buy them sealed from the factory! Fair dinkum. He's not the only joker I've had car salesman level responses from either. The quest will continue.

That sucks, looks like room for improvement in that setup but sounds like they’re not willing to try. That’s probably a red flag anyway. Good luck.

 

[glmino]

The bridge on mine was "decked" on the same side, I actually sanded
about a 16th inch off, and had to do a wrap around too.

 

[Sex God]

The bridge on mine was "decked" on the same side, I actually sanded
about a 16th inch off, and had to do a wrap around too.

"decked" that's the word I was looking for, couldn't think of it.

 

[SGBreadfan]

My ’61 SG is pretty much the same, very close to being decked like that on the high E side. But the action is honestly as low as I’d ever want to go, so I don’t anticipate it would ever cause any kind of issues. But I do understand why you‘d be concerned.

 

[Guitarist1983]

I have a 2023 61' SG Standard. I measured the bridge post gap using feeler gauges (I had 0.025" clearance on high E post). So I estimate the string height at 12th fret (on my SG) could be set as low as 0.045 inches ( <3/64" ~1.1 mm). My saddles are just barely notched (so they could be filed down some more). FYI: my neck relief is ~ 0.012" with capo on Fret I and pressing down on fret 22, measuring at fret 9. String action of 3/64" is too low for me, I like to play slide and also bend notes quite a bit--my action is closer to 0.07" (4.5/64ths). Math: my Action (0.07") minus my post's gap (0.025") would yield a 0.045" string action.

 

[Guitarist1983]

Follow up: I couldn't stand it and had to measure exactly. I decked the bridge on the High E side and measured the string action (fret 12) at 0.033" which is almost 2/64ths (~0.84 mm). Hope that helps. I should mention, that the guitar was unplayable that low. Fret out when bending notes at the upper frets.

 

[Sex God]

I have a 2023 61' SG Standard. I measured the bridge post gap using feeler gauges (I had 0.025" clearance on high E post). So I estimate the string height at 12th fret (on my SG) could be set as low as 0.045 inches ( <3/64" ~1.1 mm). My saddles are just barely notched (so they could be filed down some more). FYI: my neck relief is ~ 0.012" with capo on Fret I and pressing down on fret 22, measuring at fret 9. String action of 3/64" is too low for me, I like to play slide and also bend notes quite a bit--my action is closer to 0.07" (4.5/64ths). Math: my Action (0.07") minus my post's gap (0.025") would yield a 0.045" string action.

Thanks heaps for that detailed information.
I'm not a shredder, play clean a lot and my technique is dynamic. I like my action without any buzzing for bends and sustain and for somewhat harder playing at times, within reason, when required and all things in between. I wouldn't need my action for the 1st string to be any lower than 1.1mm at the 12th. My electric axes are set somewhere around that mark though, between there and 1.4mm. Given I would need to drop the bridge 1mm to lower the action at the 12th 0.5mm, I would want some wiggle room with the bridge if the action is anywhere near 1.5mm at the 12th at concert pitch. Unless of course the relief is way out. I'm thinking that would be unusual but I've not had anything to do with Gibson SG models in the past. I usually set my relief around 0.01" using your same technique on my other electrics.
I've asked another retailer to provide action measurements at the 12th for the 1st and 6th strings at concert pitch on a '61 they have in stock that also has the treble side of the bridge decked. They said they are happy to do a set-up to my desired specs and send pictures of the bridge height which is really quite helpful and impressive. I'm considering it but the grain is a bit off on it, it is display stock but more expensive than the other one with higher shipping costs as well since it is located at the far other end of the continent way out west.

 

[Sex God]

Follow up: I couldn't stand it and had to measure exactly. I decked the bridge on the High E side and measured the string action (fret 12) at 0.033" which is almost 2/64ths (~0.84 mm). Hope that helps. I should mention, that the guitar was unplayable that low. Fret out when bending notes at the upper frets.

I would be happy with that situation.

 

[Les’s Nemisis]

I think you already ruled the one in the photos about out, but if not, it looks to me like the 12th fret is higher than the 11th or 13th frets. I know some of that can be camera angle, but that would usually result in a trend i.e. 12th is higher, 11th is higher still, etc. This just looks like the 12th is high. Don't look at the nibs, look at the string to fret distance.

 

[Sex God]

I think you already ruled the one in the photos about out

I've very nearly ruled purchasing a Gibson at all out. Without getting my hands on one and having a good look at it I don't think it's wise. I think the salesman was right, there's only so much you can through email and pictures. If I happen to travel one day and there's a music shop with one in it, the instrument stacks up and I've still got the spare spondulix it might happen but the odds are slim. I've purchased Fenders, a Martin and a Japanese Gretsch sight unseen without too many issues. A CS Nocaster went back because the high E string was too close to the fretboard edge and it had some very sloppy fret work but the others have been good, perhaps I got lucky. At least Fender Australia were very good about the Nocaster, even offered to loan me a telecaster while they made a new neck and installed it or a full refund. Gibson in Australia were the exact opposite with the '50s Standard that had the lumpy neck profile and the more I look into purchasing any Gibson the worse their QC appears to be.

 

[Les’s Nemisis]

I've very nearly ruled purchasing a Gibson at all out. Without getting my hands on one and having a good look at it I don't think it's wise. I think the salesman was right, there's only so much you can through email and pictures. If I happen to travel one day and there's a music shop with one in it, the instrument stacks up and I've still got the spare spondulix it might happen but the odds are slim. I've purchased Fenders, a Martin and a Japanese Gretsch sight unseen without too many issues. A CS Nocaster went back because the high E string was too close to the fretboard edge and it had some very sloppy fret work but the others have been good, perhaps I got lucky. At least Fender Australia were very good about the Nocaster, even offered to loan me a telecaster while they made a new neck and installed it or a full refund. Gibson in Australia were the exact opposite with the '50s Standard that had the lumpy neck profile and the more I look into purchasing any Gibson the worse their QC appears to be.

Just FYI - Fender quality seems to really have dropped as of the last year or two. Lots of complaints about what arrives. It might be linked to some specific lines/models, but I'm not ready to make that judgement yet.

 

[Huntroll]

Look closely at the OP pictures.

That guitar is WAY out of adjustment.

It would probably be fine when properly set up.

I'm sure it doesn't play how it is in those pictures.

Are you going to be able to set the action, intonation & truss rod etc. once you clean up your new guitar and get your favorite strings installed ?

Do you have a good digital guitar tuner & wire cutters for installing the new strings ?

You may want to buy a book on the subject, I did.

OP - make sure you order a few sets of your favorite strings & picks !

I sure hope this isn't a bogus "come-on" thread aimed at taking advantage of some of this sites good natured old-timers !