why are my gibson tuners so bad

[rshack]

just checked my nut and i belive its cut properly, the slots are cut at a light angle according to the strings and it's the factory nut from gibson, as for the bridge it's a wrap around so it can't really be that. i will try doing that self locking thing when i go to restring.

Your tuning stability problem shows up on which strings? I assume it's some strings more than others.

Even if the nut slot is cut at a useful outward angle, there are still 2 other things about how it's cut that can be the problem:

1. Is the slot cut at a downward angle towards the tuners? It should be. This matters more on Gibson's due to the angle at which Gibson headstocks lean back.

2. Is the nut slots clear of any debris or rough spots left over from when it was cut. Just a little rough spot or piece of nut-trash in the slot can cause string binding.

 

[rshack]

What do you mean by old strings? Cause old, unchanged strings don't sound that good.

They might sound dead, but they stay in tune, Two different issues...

p.s. Some folks prefer the sound of VERY OLD AND USED UP *flatwound* strings. (I like flatwounds too... on some guitars... but I don't know anything about very old ones.)

 

[ebonySGguy]

Sounds like a classic case of a string binding. See if it happens after you tune UP to pitch, not DOWN to pitch. I'd be shocked if it still happened then...

I always tune up, but even if i did, the string went out of tune a lot insanely fast.

 

[rshack]

I always tune up, but even if i did, the string went out of tune a lot insanely fast.

Are you sure it was stretched?

Are you sure it was wrapped around the tuners in a way that left no slack of any kind?

The fact that it's a G string makes me especially suspect the nut slot... simply because that string seems to have nut slot problems more than any other string, by a lot.

Regardless of all that, it's not the tuner unless the tuner is just plain broken. This is physics: the tension on the string doesn't pull with enough force to make the tuner post rotate.... (which is why even cheap crappy tuners function just fine)... but the string tension does pull with enough force to yank out any slack that might be hidden in the string's wrap around the tuner.

 

[ebonySGguy]

Are you sure it was stretched?

Are you sure it was wrapped around the tuners in a way that left no slack of any kind?

The fact that it's a G string makes me especially suspect the nut slot... simply because that string seems to have nut slot problems more than any other string, by a lot.

Regardless of all that, it's not the tuner unless the tuner is just plain broken. This is physics: the tension on the string doesn't pull with enough force to make the tuner post rotate.... (which is why even cheap crappy tuners function just fine)... but the string tension does pull with enough force to yank out any slack that might be hidden in the string's wrap around the tuner.

This was a brand new guitar at my local guitar store. the strings did feel a little weird though, and the action was a little high.

 

[rshack]

This was a brand new guitar at my local guitar store. the strings did feel a little weird though, and the action was a little high.

Well, in that case I bet it's between (a) loose wrapping, or (b) unstretched string, or (3) nut slot issue. No reason to think it's a tuner.

 

[Derrick]

What do you mean by old strings? Cause old, unchanged strings don't sound that good.

That's your opinion... some prefer old strings. John Frusciente of The Red Hot Chili Peppers recorded their biggest record with old crusty strings on purpose and sounded great.

Gibson tuners are trash. Get grover tuners.

As someone who has owned more Gibsons than the average person, I disagree completely. I have toured internationally with stock tuners and never an issue in nearly 34 years of playing in bands - including SG Specials.

 

[Super fuzz]

it went out of tune really fast

Going out of tune has very little to nothing to do with the tuners. The nut is probably binding or the strings are old. Old strings won’t stay in tune as well as new ones.

Having said that, I run my strings for up to 6 months before changing and it’s when they no longer stay in tune that I change them.

 

[ebonySGguy]

Having said that, I run my strings for up to 6 months before changing and it’s when they no longer stay in tune that I change them.

same

 

[Go Nigel Go]

This was a brand new guitar at my local guitar store. the strings did feel a little weird though, and the action was a little high.

This may actually be the problem. New guitars are built with the intention that they be adjusted and set up for the new user. It is a case of "factory fresh" not being an indicator of perfection. Every guitar that is new to me gets at least a couple of hours on my work bench to check everything and adjust it as needed to make it fit my desires for adjustment and feel. As often as not, a new instrument will need more adjustment than a used one in my experience. The main upside with a new one is that the nut usually has "extra meat" on it, so it only takes removal of material to get the nut slots right, rather than filling and re cutting. As others have noted, string gauge is a very subjective thing, and the nut slots need to be cut for the preferred strings rather than some arbitrary factory spec. A "player's set up" will probably solve your problems. You can do it yourself if you know how, or pay a knowledgeable tech or luthier to do it for you. You won't regret it, and it will be money/time well spent.

 

[ebonySGguy]

This may actually be the problem. New guitars are built with the intention that they be adjusted and set up for the new user.

That's what I thought while playing it.

 

[fuzbuzz78]

Own multiple Gibson’s. Vintage and newer. All have stock tuners, some I use Vibrola and I have never had tuning issues. I do however have the nuts cleaned up with some light filing usually. I’m always amazed to hear the issues people seem to have with tuners. Guaranteed 99% of the time they have a crap setup and a terribly dressed nut.

 

[Rusty Chops]

The cheapest tuner will not be turned backwards by string tension. Worm and spur has tremendous mechanical advantage.
But every gear set has some slack and if you don’t come up to tune from below the note that slack will pull out.

 

[Brooklyn Zeke]

I'm gonna go out on a limb, here. My guess is that zachspecial may not be stretching the strings sufficiently after installing a new set. After you first bring each new string up to tune, you've got to repeatedly stretch the strings by inserting your index finger under each one, and pulling it upwards, away from the body rather strongly, and re-tuning to pitch. This needs to be done several times for each string. What it does is seat the balls of the strings at their anchor point, as well as tightening the string winds around the tuning post. If this practice is not done, the strings will be going out of tune for a protracted period of time during which normal string tension alone slowly stabilizes each string. Sometimes an erroneous conclusion is reached that it is "cheaply made" tuning machines which are slipping, causing of the out-of-tune condition. Not being judgmental, just helpful. BTW, my '70 SG Std. came with Gibson Deluxe tulip tuners which I've swapped out for Sperzel Locking Tuners. I also use a String Butler to provide a straight string pull behind the nut.

 

[Brooklyn Zeke]

I swapped out the original Gibson Deluxe, Tulip (Keystone) Knob tuners, for Sperzel Locking Tuners on my '70 SG Std., some time ago. I had not had a head dive problem either with the original tuners, or with the heavier replacements.

 

[flognoth]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the tuners in the OP's photo, not because they don't stay in tune or anything like that, I just don't get on with shape and feel of the buttons.

I'm a fan of Grover Milk Bottles. I like their feel, the way the tune. Not trying to get into a neck dive is a myth vs. no it's real debate. They're what I like and they work for me.

Whenever someone tells you "don't use anything heavier" or something is crap ignore them. In my opinion trial and error is what helps determine what you like, what works for you, your sound and your style of playing.

 

[Carrion]

I would suggest not listening to this guy... he's trying to get you to spend a bunch of money on something that will not solve your problem... because your problem is NOT the tuners.

what ever hero ... you know it all i guess lol

 

[Carrion]

I would suggest not listening to this guy... he's trying to get you to spend a bunch of money on something that will not solve your problem... because your problem is NOT the tuners.

lol ya .. i am "trying to get him to spend money " .... man, themis idiot thinkin' right there :)

you obviously haven't play guitars in a set or what have you .. Klusons suck .. like your demeanor lol

 

[Gary Gretsch]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the tuners in the OP's photo, not because they don't stay in tune or anything like that, I just don't get on with shape and feel of the buttons.

I'm a fan of Grover Milk Bottles. I like their feel, the way the tune. Not trying to get into a neck dive is a myth vs. no it's real debate. They're what I like and they work for me.

Whenever someone tells you "don't use anything heavier" or something is crap ignore them. In my opinion trial and error is what helps determine what you like, what works for you, your sound and your style of playing.

I don't think tuners are a thing you want to experiment with. Or you can, and after a few sets of tuners the back of your headstock will look like swiss cheese.

 

[LogicprObe]

i just got my first gibson, a new sg special, and the tuners are just utter trash, is this just me am i using them wrong or are they this bad. i have poor tuning stability and they don't feel very smooth as compared to grovers or hipshots despite having the same gear ratio. i tightened them to see if that would fix it it made them better but they still aren't great, what should i do. i am looking at replacements but im concerned having heavier tuners will increase neck dive im kinda on a budget so i was looking at these
https://www.amazon.com/Guyker-Guitar-Locking-String-Tuning/dp/B07ZZ77RQN/ref=sr_1_18?crid=1B05SKLZ7VQU7&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.NSHLgzkBtX8IGyNj0FTZDnhjott_J8EpyX00aSM5m4ydB0HV0CT6aK0sfZmBUyN5YzvaBIG1erAG4h0K5Pu0e1hePJmYwxbqlc2EkjqTp7obOSTUx7x6CwGeTfLQ0dWsY1Y8jMyHW6DIH2TErNT02hwulIpx9umpiw2f2NlAC3ikFF239hqBJu0q2AMYdGXxbEPLGbHJQSoe1F0HWimR4z3MY-Qu_UuU8sWROJjJw2819LkPtRPa_l2xuVBCgP_yOjtFhA7oAgYCQhyqaQEqLyV_sHtxuOnUgSR0-66hZnc.FY4YrbpWdIIVYGpdp07B-NMGsTbnBUVQ2jDjaUiLnzs&dib_tag=se&keywords=gibson+tuning+keys+locking&qid=1718071664&sprefix=gibson+tuning+keys+lock,aps,438&sr=8-18&th=1
does anyone know if these are any good or should i just bite the bullet and spend more and get hipshots and just deal with the neck dive and it almost being double the cost. View attachment 55548

Looks like a troll to me.
Cheap Chinese junk screwed onto a real deal................or an AI deep fake!!!!