Effects of Key Changes

[smitty_p]

In another thread, the idea came up of the effects of key changes. The context dealt with changing keys to adapt a female-led song to a male, and vice-versa.

Relic61 noted the drawback to this, in that changing keys can affect the feel of a song. I've noticed this, too. I don't see it so much when changing a half step, or so. But, significant key changes do seem to change the feel.

It's an interesting idea.

To save going back and forth between threads, I've posted his comments below:

So, what do ya'll think?


"To me, things like key changes often change the feel of a song. I'm sure there is a reason for that. If I had to guess...maybe it's something to do with vibration, as in the vibration each note produces per second & how the body & ear responds to those differences in vibration, but I'm only guessing. I just know songs not only sound different when changing the key but often actually feel different too.

Ya man. It's when you start moving things from say G to D (Maybe to allow for a male to sing a previously female version) that things really change. And then in addition, the voicing & chord inversions usually get changed up on guitar as well, unless you are using one of those magic pitch changing pedals. But even still it would sound & feel completely different, I mean duh. It is.

What did ya think about my vibration theory man?? To out there? "

 

[donepearce]

The mood of various keys goes way back before even classical music. It isn't just suiting the range of a vocalist, because it applies equally to instrumental music. The idea grew up before we had equal temperament for obvious reasons, but it has persisted. There's a really good BBC four-part radio programme on this. I'll post a link to the first part, but probably if you are outside the UK, it won't play for you. Unless you find yourself a UK proxy server, of course.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01sdg2r

 

[iblive]

I'm not knowledgable enough in music theory to know the whys, but I can definitely hear and feel it. Take a song and drop it a couple steps so its in my range, and it just doesn't sound right.

 

[Bullfrog]

Yeah I agree too. It definitely changes the feel of the song. Sometimes for the better, and sometimes not.

 

[Dave_Death]

I agree.


Listen to this song, which was originally played in E standard and then with tuning down move to a lower key. It sounds very different. I like the old version much better.

 

[dbb]

Our ears get used to things in certain keys, and it sounds odd when transposed sometimes. Plus, dropping a key does move the song into slower vibrations just by plain physics.

 

[donepearce]

How about Why Worry by Dire Straits. Knopfler said in an interview that he wrote this in the wrong key. It started in E, then he moved it down to D. He said it felt like it had come home

 

[iblive]

For sure when it comes to the guitar part.... excluding any vocals..... I have keys I like the sound of better than other. Even the vibration I feel in the guitar is cooler. But then I can be an odd duck at times.

 

[Col Mustard]

This is pretty advanced stuff IMHO... We could take (or offer) a college level class on
ARRANGING that would cover some of this. These are very valid concerns, because they affect
what is effective about a performance.

...and both writers and performers (some of us are both) will agree that what we want from
any song is that it be effective.

effective means memorable, successful, a song that sells. (or at least gets your group
invited back for a return engagement). And if you can create a memorable song image in the
"mind' of a venue owner with the mentality of a wooden fence post, your song is effective.

as ETSG's resident folkie, I'll tell you how we do it.... we write the song as it falls, in whatever
key the impulse chooses. Get it down first, then mess with it. The old inspiration>editing
continuum. Then we select the key based on the lead singer's range. *laughs

That's what makes a performance effective (OR NOT)... whether the lead singer can manage
to deliver it properly. To me, as a singer-songwriter, that's the determining factor: DELIVERY...
Producers of Broadway Shows can conduct auditions to find singers who can deliver the score
as written, but folkies do this backward. Select the key to fit the singer.

Once we determine the key required by the lead singer for effective delivery, we arrange the
harmony vocals around that. Sometimes we choose male voices for harmony, sometimes female,
depending on who is available and where they can fit their vocal into the key we've determined.

Then we start grabbing musicians to add to the arrangement... based on who is available and
what they have to offer. Some fiddlers really favor the key of C... (no sharps or flats *grins)
If we've determined the song is in the key of Bb, then some of them may eliminate themselves
by limiting where they can express their music. Oh well... Guitarists and bassists and drummers
can usually play in any key. Keyboardists too.

Then we lay it down, and listen. We may change our minds based on how it sounds.
You'll note that a lot of the determining factors are judged by the heart, not the mind.
That's the way we work. And I like it. It's effective, in our own little cosmos.

 

[Norton]

Light and sound behave the same way. Both are waves oscillating.

Every time you mix blue with yellow you get green. Same for shifting intervals/keys in music.

You are right on with the vibration focus.

 

[Heket]

Someone linked this to me before, and I find it interesting. It's a rundown of all the keys and their feel based on the following idea:

"The key signatures of music are kind of like the signs of the zodiac. If you take all the music in a given key, you’ll discover certain characteristics"

http://music.cbc.ca/#!/blogs/2012/9/The-Signature-Series-on-CBC-Music

 

[DoodoaXD]

The way I think of it is when you play a song in the key of A for example, and you are making a A-G-D-G chord progression, you "fill" the room you are playing in with these notes. It becomes the air you breathe. So "A" is the oxygen, the most important factor of the air, and the other two notes are the hydrogen.

If you were to suddenly take away that A note and replace it with an E, you will get a weird feeling because your not used to that E sound that just came up.

That's one way to think of it...

 

[Relic61]

Being modality also seems to illicit an effect over ones emotion when listening (as Hekets post eludes) I found it interesting when I stumbled across this mood conjuring breakdown of the various modalities. Here are three such interpretations, from Guido of Arezzo (995–1050), Adam of Fulda (1445–1505), and Juan de Espinosa Medrano (1632–1688),

Name----------Mode----D'Arezzo------Fulda-----------Espinosa
Dorian--------- I---------serious--------any feeling-----happy, taming the passions
Hypodorian----II--------sad------------sad-------------serious and tearful
Phrygian-------III------mystic--------vehement--------inciting anger
Hypophrygian-IV--harmonious----tender----inciting delights,tempering fierceness
Lydian----------V-----happy-----------happy----------happy
Hypolydian----VI----devout----------pious------------tearful and pious
Mixolydian----VII----angelical-------of youth---------uniting pleasure and sadness
Hypomixolydian-VIII--perfect-------of knowledge----very happy




It's interesting that you Doodao chose G & D chords to accompany your A modality. Traditional A major scale (in my country & referred to as one of the Modern Western Modes) has a raised 7th or major 7th (G# in the key of A) & the accompanying chords would be D (the 4 chord) & E (the 5th using G# as its major 3rd) in comparison & contrast to what you selected to accompany your key of A example as the G chord (a G natural) would be a dominant 7th (whole step between 7th & root note) an indicate a modality other than A major & be suggestive of the Mixolydian Mode in the key of A or even .. it actually being in the Key of D with A feeling like the tonic. There are lots of modern songs that use this trick & its what makes then catchy sounding. Two quick ones that come to mind are 'Take the Money & Run' (Steve Miller, Key of C yet starts on G & has a G tonic pull) & Sweet Home Alabama (lynyrd Skynyrd, key of G starting on D with strong D tonic sensation).

As we can see laid out in the star chart below, there are many ways (modalities) to play in a key. The chart below actually does a nice job of giving visual reference to the actual spacing between notes that make up the scale of each mode.





There are many modalities & scales beyond the Modern Western modes. Here are some common modern examples we can hear on the radio today.



And just to completely blow our minds over the already established number of modalities & scales, check out the visual intervals of each mode & scale on this star chart layout below!

Booom! Mind officially blown! But wait a tic...All this & we haven't even touched on or mentioned all the many quarter-tones or micro tones that break up music into smaller intervals or fractions of spacing between tones!

As you probably know Doodoa, the use of quarter tones & microtonal intervals is a rather recent development in modern Western music but it has been a traditional & longstanding part of music from older established parts of the world like Persia, the Arab world, Armenia, Turkey, Assyria, Kurdistan & their neighboring lands.

I have no real idea what traditional Egyptian music sounds like but I understand it to be a melting pot of the ancient cultures around it over the centuries and entailing the use of these smaller tone intervals. But it sounds to me like you listen to more modern music than the music of your Grandfather.. would I be right about that D?

 

[DoodoaXD]

Being modality also seems to illicit an effect over ones emotion when listening (as Hekets post eludes) I found it interesting when I stumbled across this mood conjuring breakdown of the various modalities. Here are three such interpretations, from Guido of Arezzo (995–1050), Adam of Fulda (1445–1505), and Juan de Espinosa Medrano (1632–1688),

Name----------Mode----D'Arezzo------Fulda-----------Espinosa
Dorian--------- I---------serious--------any feeling-----happy, taming the passions
Hypodorian----II--------sad------------sad-------------serious and tearful
Phrygian-------III------mystic--------vehement--------inciting anger
Hypophrygian-IV--harmonious----tender----inciting delights,tempering fierceness
Lydian----------V-----happy-----------happy----------happy
Hypolydian----VI----devout----------pious------------tearful and pious
Mixolydian----VII----angelical-------of youth---------uniting pleasure and sadness
Hypomixolydian-VIII--perfect-------of knowledge----very happy




It's interesting that you Doodao chose G & D chords to accompany your A modality. Traditional A major scale (in my country & referred to as one of the Modern Western Modes) has a raised 7th or major 7th (G# in the key of A) & the accompanying chords would be D (the 4 chord) & E (the 5th using G# as its major 3rd) in comparison & contrast to what you selected to accompany your key of A example as the G chord (a G natural) would be a dominant 7th (whole step between 7th & root note) an indicate a modality other than A major & be suggestive of the Mixolydian Mode in the key of A or even .. it actually being in the Key of D with A feeling like the tonic. There are lots of modern songs that use this trick & its what makes then catchy sounding. Two quick ones that come to mind are 'Take the Money & Run' (Steve Miller, Key of C yet starts on G & has a G tonic pull) & Sweet Home Alabama (lynyrd Skynyrd, key of G starting on D with strong D tonic sensation).

As we can see laid out in the star chart below, there are many ways (modalities) to play in a key. The chart below actually does a nice job of giving visual reference to the actual spacing between notes that make up the scale of each mode.



View attachment 12066

There are many modalities & scales beyond the Modern Western modes. Here are some common modern examples we can hear on the radio today.

View attachment 12067

And just to completely blow our minds over the already established number of modalities & scales, check out the visual intervals of each mode & scale on this star chart layout below!

Booom! Mind officially blown! But wait a tic...All this & we haven't even touched on or mentioned all the many quarter-tones or micro tones that break up music into smaller intervals or fractions of spacing between tones!

As you probably know Doodoa, the use of quarter tones & microtonal intervals is a rather recent development in modern Western music but it has been a traditional & longstanding part of music from older established parts of the world like Persia, the Arab world, Armenia, Turkey, Assyria, Kurdistan & their neighboring lands.

I have no real idea what traditional Egyptian music sounds like but I understand it to be a melting pot of the ancient cultures around it over the centuries and entailing the use of these smaller tone intervals. But it sounds to me like you listen to more modern music than the music of your Grandfather.. would I be right about that D?

Yep! I'm not really a big listener of oriental Egyptian music, but I don't have any negative comments about them! I actually know how to play a song or two.

Now, I am a self taught musican, so I'll be honest there was a few words that I couldn't really understand in your text. But I read a lot about music theory and etc, so I was able to grasp most stuff. It's pleasing to read about the mixolydian mode at the begginging, because it's so far one of my favorite scales/modes, more that the pentatonic. But I've only been playing for a year and a half, so much to learn!

 

[Relic61]

Well then my brother, you really are at the beginning of what promises to be a lifelong learning experience. Enjoy your adventure as you journey forward my friend. I do hope you continue to stay interested & learn as you find a lifetime of enjoyment & reward music holds for those who. Listening to music, playing an instrument & performing music is truly some of life's special gifts, and those of us who find these joys are richer for it.

Rock On my Brotha from anotha Motha.