I really want to save my SG, but it's just so uncomfortable to play.

[flatrockmobile]

The neck dives like an olympic swimmer anytime I take my hands off of it.

The answer is right there in your own post!
My lightest SG is the one in my avatar with full sized Grovers. I've never experienced neck dive when playing, but my hand is usually on the neck actually playing something.

 

[holmcross]

I took Dr. Dave's advice and replaced the metal Grover buttons with acrylics. Made all the difference:

http://imgur.com/a/xlFfM

Little unstable, but that's due to the slick-as hell guitar strap. I wouldn't even try that before I swapped the buttons out. I did try wide and "grippy" straps before but the neck would just drag the strap down and take my shirt with it.

Having all that mass at the end of the guitar is on an SG is a little ridiculous. They're a whopping 73g:

http://imgur.com/a/1lSKB

Guitar feels great now. I'll be recommending this change to anyone that has a problem with their SG. Wouldn't be surprised if this is behind most SG neck dive problems.

 

[Dave_Death]

I took Dr. Dave's advice and replaced the metal Grover buttons with acrylics. Made all the difference:

http://imgur.com/a/xlFfM

Little unstable, but that's due to the slick-as hell guitar strap. I wouldn't even try that before I swapped the buttons out. I did try wide and "grippy" straps before but the neck would just drag the strap down and take my shirt with it.

Having all that mass at the end of the guitar is on an SG is a little ridiculous. They're a whopping 73g.

Like I said in the other thread, put them in a sock and you have a handy little weapon if you have a scary walk home from the bus stop

 

[paul-e-mann]

Why don't they make metal tuners out of aluminum to prevent neck dive?

 

[Kep]

Why don't they make metal tuners out of aluminum to prevent neck dive?

Metal fatigue

 

[SGtopper]

I don't have any neck dive...
And I have a 17' with grovers...
But I don't hang my guitar low on the strap - waist high
JMHO...

 

[Dave_Death]

Why don't they make metal tuners out of aluminum to prevent neck dive?

One of the heaviest parts on a Grover tuner is the kidney button, which could be replaced with aluminium, wood, or plastic.

 

[Norlin SG]

Problem solved.......................................................

 

[jtees4]

Problem solved.......................................................

I have had a few Steinbergers over the years, and I often thought the SG would be the perfect guitar to fit a Steinberger bridge into (my personal favorite was the S bridge)....but any would have worked well.

 

[Col Mustard]

Why don't they make metal tuners out of aluminum to prevent neck dive?

Grover rotomatic tuners don't cause problems on all guitars... These
machines are very popular, and they give excellent service to musicians
of all stripes. They have been regarded up till now as one of the best
there is. They are being made in China now, and I don't know if the U.S. workers have been thrown out of their jobs yet. And I don't know if their quality will hold up either. The manufacturer might be just marketing the illusion of good tuners, based on past reputation.

SGs are just particularly susceptible to excess weight out at the end of the
Headstock.
But I put a set on my step daughter's Epi Les Paul special ll, and it balances just fine.
That darn guitar weighs about 9 pounds (4 kilos), so it's a real boat
anchor compared to an SG. And the Grovers are a real upgrade from the
tin foil parts that were stock on this inexpensive axe.

I have them on my Mossman acoustic... stock from the Mossman factory. and it's forty years later and those keys have given great service for nearly my whole career. I've played that guitar at thousands of gigs since I bought it used in 1977... It's been from Tallahassee to Talkeentna, and from Rockland to Santa Cruz. NO PROBLEMS.

So the Rotomatics are a design that shouldn't be messed with because it's effective and dependable. Just don't put them on an SG, or on a parlor guitar. And if you can afford the best, just get a set of Waverley tuning keys. No problems of any kind with those.

 

[Biddlin]

Waverley tuning keys. No problems of any kind with those.

Modern masterpieces. They come from a very long line of fine tuning machines. They do require frequent and regular cleaning and inspection, because they are open to the filthy environment. My Harmony tenor has Waverly tuners, the originals!

 

[Col Mustard]

yeah, I have a 1936 Martin 0-17 parlor guitar that had Waverly tuners on it when I bought it
used in 1985. The tuners were worn out... and the guitar would not stay in tune. I knew nothing
about Waverly tuners then, and only knew that I could see the worn gears, and practically hear
them slip. I bought the guitar anyway because it was an opportunity not to be passed up. I figured it was my responsibility to put right what ever was wrong.

So I took it to my local guitar shop and asked them to replace the tuners. They found that
a set of Grover Rotomatic tuners would fit in the same holes. No drilling, no routing... I said, "cool! install 'em!"

I knew nothing about neck dive then... I knew nothing about the differences in weight between
the Waverly gears and the Grovers. I did know that Grovers were one of the best, and I already had them on my Mossman. So I happily paid the bill and took the guitar home.

The guitar would not balance. Tuning was stable, so I figured I got what I needed.
It didn't occur to me for years and years that the tuners were causing the neck dive.
I would not have thought of that on my own. I had no trouble with neck dive on my Mossman dred,
but had no experience with parlor guitars. I figured it was my own sloppy technique that caused
the guitar to drop. *shrugs ...The tone on that little Martin is so outstanding that I would put up
with any of her little quirks. And I did for a long time.
I named her Rosebud.

Fast fwd to 2009 when I bought a MIM Telecaster on impulse. I immediately replaced the wiring
harness with good quality parts, and bought a set of Grover 6 in line mini locking tuners, figuring that
the Mexican made Fender might use sub standard tuners to keep the price low. When I installed
the Grovers, the Tele turned into neck dive city. I was so bummed! I tried to get along with it for
a while, and then... rumbling and grumbling I removed them and put the stock tuners back on.
Balance was restored. And the stock tuners work fine.

I started looking squint eyed at the Martin. Then one day: Glory Be! I saw an ad in Stew Mac's mail order catalog about Waverly tuners, and about how Waverly was re-issuing the keys they had made for Martins in the 20s and 30s. And some words of praise from Tony Rice (one of my guitar heroes).
The Waverly tuners were priced at $150! I went down in my basement and found an old box of guitar
bits, and there were the original tuners from the Martin. Waverly all right, and exactly like what was
in the Stew Mac catalog. I knew I'd have to think this over for a good long time...

It took me about five seconds to decide that I had to have the real thing. Ordered them online
immediately. A few days later they were on the guitar. All I had to do was fill in the screw holes with toothpicks and wood glue. I bought a couple different sizes of bushing, because I figured
that after 70 years the holes were likely a little out of round.



Happy ending #745: Rosebud balances perfectly now!

 

[Raiyn]

Grover rotomatic tuners don't cause problems on all guitars... These
machines are very popular, and they give excellent service to musicians of all stripes. They have been regarded up till now as one of the best there is. They are being made in China now, and I don't know if the U.S. workers have been thrown out of their jobs yet. And I don't know if their quality will hold up either. The manufacturer might be just marketing the illusion of good tuners, based on past reputation.
.

Grovers moved production to Taiwan in the 80s, so that ship has sailed. Klusons are offshore parts as well, having closed their doors in the early 80s.

The thing I find amusing is Hipshot, the tuners some claim to "devalue" instruments, are made made in NY state where they've been since 1994 after moving the company from California after more than a decade of production.

 

[jtees4]

Grovers are imported but still very well made IMHO. I have used them on various guitars, I even put a set of Grover locking tuners on one SG which I recently sold (but I kept the tuners and put them on a Schecter).

 

[Biddlin]

If the Hipshots weren't so butt ugly........

They remind me of these:

 

[Raiyn]

If the Hipshots weren't so butt ugly........

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

 

[Biddlin]

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

What, I'm not entitled to an opinion?

 

[Raiyn]

What, I'm not entitled to an opinion?

Oh no, I wouldn't say that. You clearly have them.

 

[Dave_Death]

I don't like the look of the Hipshots either.

I'd get some Kluson Revolution locking tuners for my Standard but they are sold out

 

[Didds]

If the Hipshots weren't so butt ugly........

They remind me of these:

I agree, theres something off-putting about the plate on electric guitars. I'm sure they work great but they just kind of...intimidate me... The locking ones are pretty cool though